Should Creationism be taught in schools?

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Fri May 11, 2007 6:56 am

I want some Chinese food. :)
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Postby deathandecay » Fri May 11, 2007 7:02 am

Nommel wrote:I want some Chinese food. :)


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Postby Aym_Dand » Fri May 11, 2007 2:31 pm

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albino.black.sheep
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Postby albino.black.sheep » Fri May 11, 2007 2:49 pm

I would just like to state, for the record, I am an atheist. It is my personal belief that there is no god. I have NEVER tried to force that opinion down anyone's throat, unlike my religious R.E. teacher who tried to force her faith down my throat. As a Jew in a 90% Christian community, I was never baptised or anything, and she couldn't except that.

I understand that not all religious people are like that, and in fact I respect anyone who believes in a religion. I honestly do. My Nanna is extremely Jewish (as was my dad), most of my friends at home are Christians who go to church every Sunday and my friends at uni consist of Muslims, Catholics, Christians and Sikhs.

I haven't judged any of you people who believe in god or creationism, so why have most of you judged the atheists and evolutionists?
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Postby plk12345 » Fri May 11, 2007 4:34 pm

There is no controversy. There isn't a single reputable scientist who lends creationism or ID any credibility whatsoever.


that's simply not true. There are old earth creationists that are much more educated on the subject than anyone here. That doesn't make them right though. The vast majority of scientists disagree.
Last edited by plk12345 on Sat May 12, 2007 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Big-Will
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Postby Big-Will » Fri May 11, 2007 6:52 pm

O'Brien wrote:Again, just because gaps in our scientific understanding of life exist doesn't automatically mean that God always fills the void. As scientists manage to figure out other pieces of the Puzzle of Life, we'll gain a greater understanding of just what brought on life in the first place. While some people may believe that it doesn't make any sense for life to form via random matter, I find it even less plausible to believe a supreme being created life when no scientific evidence for that deity exists.

For those of us who still believe, God doesn't just fill the void, he is all the explanation needed until science figures out what's going on behind the scenes. Since science will never be able to answer every question the human mind can conceive, God will continue to exist.
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plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Fri May 11, 2007 7:00 pm

Big-Will wrote:
O'Brien wrote:Again, just because gaps in our scientific understanding of life exist doesn't automatically mean that God always fills the void. As scientists manage to figure out other pieces of the Puzzle of Life, we'll gain a greater understanding of just what brought on life in the first place. While some people may believe that it doesn't make any sense for life to form via random matter, I find it even less plausible to believe a supreme being created life when no scientific evidence for that deity exists.

For those of us who still believe, God doesn't just fill the void, he is all the explanation needed until science figures out what's going on behind the scenes. Since science will never be able to answer every question the human mind can conceive, God will continue to exist.


one thing is for sure, men will always believe in god


there is one fundamental question that everyone asks in their lives:

"why is there something rather than nothing?"

Big-Will wrote:
plk12345 wrote:but you don't believe in god?

Did I say I was atheist? Do you know any atheist Catholics? Come on, get on the ball here!


oh sh*t, my bad, somehow i thought this albinoblacksheep quote was from you when i read it
I would call myself an atheist, but only because I don't believe in a god.


triplemultiplex wrote:
plk12345 wrote:hey even the pope might agree with you

Maybe the last pope.


john paul ii was a great man

Pope Benedict XVI is turning out good, especially after limbo.
he also claims he will focus on east west reconciliation...
Last edited by plk12345 on Fri May 11, 2007 7:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.
albino.black.sheep
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Postby albino.black.sheep » Fri May 11, 2007 7:08 pm

Let's just stop with the isms! It's madness!
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plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Fri May 11, 2007 7:23 pm

albino.black.sheep wrote:Let's just stop with the isms! It's madness!

madness?

this is sparta


that's what you were expecting right

who didn't see that coming?
albino.black.sheep
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Postby albino.black.sheep » Fri May 11, 2007 7:25 pm

plk12345 wrote:
albino.black.sheep wrote:Let's just stop with the isms! It's madness!

madness?

this is sparta


that's what you were expecting right

who didn't see that coming?


Please don't subject everyone on this thead to your dickery.
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plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Fri May 11, 2007 7:29 pm

albino.black.sheep wrote:Please don't subject everyone on this thead to your dickery.


oh man, im passed this
BrittanyRose
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Postby BrittanyRose » Fri May 11, 2007 7:45 pm

evolution is science and creationism is religious. We learn about science in school, not religion so no creationism shouldn't be taught it's that simple.
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Postby SuperMaids » Fri May 11, 2007 8:16 pm

Wow, just as i thought... neither side (with few exceptions) can even think of accepting that both creationismn and evolution should both be taught, in different ways, because for different reasons they're both important.
Evolution is fact and must be taught as science; that's a givven.
Philosophy, which includes major religious ideas from many faiths (including athiesmn and agnosticismn), must not only be taught as a 'no real answers' subject, in order for students to understand whty people from other historic periods and cultures did or do things, it must also be understood to some degree if we're ever going to figure out WHY living things would rather live than die, and why the universe begun. To fully round out our young minds of the future, we should try to help them learn philosophies that arn't taught by their families of local communities, as well as those that are common to their generation (like creationism).
This is gonna sound like when the KKK say they don't hate blacks, but... I'm not against athiests per say; what i am, however, strongly against, is any restrictions to people's freedom of speech and thought. In the same way that i'm against any fundamentalist school of thought that decrees all others must be outlawed, i disagree with athiesmn's lack of tollerence for some things some people hold dear; history, culture and tradition. I know they cause war, and much pain and suffering (this isn't going well, is it?), but i'd still say they're important in keeping some spice left in the world and stopping everything from degenerating into an MTV fuled orgy of nhiolismn.
The real question is When people should be taught it. While many would say it should be when a student can choose to learn, i'd dissagree, saing that when they're younger, before their parents havn't indoctionated them to one beliefe yet, and that if it's not compulsory parents will still indoctionate most of their children, but that's just my idea. Anyone got another thought on this?
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Postby O'Brien » Fri May 11, 2007 9:24 pm

Big-Will wrote:Since science will never be able to answer every question the human mind can conceive, God will continue to exist.

Ehhh.... God still reeks of a shaky placeholder to me. Personally, I'd hope that humanity would instead just come to terms with the fact that some questions concerning science, history, and ect. may be left unaswered forever.

Philosophy, which includes major religious ideas from many faiths (including athiesmn and agnosticismn), must not only be taught as a 'no real answers' subject, in order for students to understand whty people from other historic periods and cultures did or do things, it must also be understood to some degree if we're ever going to figure out WHY living things would rather live than die, and why the universe begun. To fully round out our young minds of the future, we should try to help them learn philosophies that arn't taught by their families of local communities, as well as those that are common to their generation (like creationism).

Last time I was in a philosophy class in high school, we didn't learn about what other cultures did at all. All we ever did was ponder over worthless mind games and watched "Dead Poet's Society" and that Eye of the Beholder Twilight Zone episode. In fact, the only purpose of philosophy is to conjure up mind games and then come up with creative solutions. Not my cup of tea at all, and needless to say I got an F for that (good thing it was only a quarter and jumbled up with three other classes into Freshman Seminar).

If someone wanted to learn about world cultures, they'll have much better luck studying geography, history, anthropology or even religion. Philosophy is only useful for those interested in solving mental riddles. Sorry for the off-topic rant, but I just had to get my disdain for philosophy out of my system. Moving on:

I'm not against athiests per say; what i am, however, strongly against, is any restrictions to people's freedom of speech and thought. In the same way that i'm against any fundamentalist school of thought that decrees all others must be outlawed, i disagree with athiesmn's lack of tollerence for some things some people hold dear; history, culture and tradition. I know they cause war, and much pain and suffering (this isn't going well, is it?), but i'd still say they're important in keeping some spice left in the world and stopping everything from degenerating into an MTV fuled orgy of nhiolismn.

1. No atheists I ever heard of have ever supported restricting freedom of speech and thought. You blindly assume such an unfounded sweeping statement when you don't bother taking into account the political views of atheists. If an atheist such as myself supports the 1st Amendent (which also applied to most sane Americans), then it'd be hypocritical to use the government to surpress religion. Being realistic, outlawing religion will not have a rat's ass chance of destroying faith, but the oppressor will eventually be f*cked and lose power. Only with peaceful social change is there a realistic possibility that religion will forever lose its influence.

2. Claiming that a faithless society will only degenerate into MTV-style nihilism is nothing but plain, baseless fearmongering. Society will not collapse in the absence of religion; laws and secular-based morals will still exist to provide law, order, and overall decency.

The real question is When people should be taught it. While many would say it should be when a student can choose to learn, i'd dissagree, saing that when they're younger, before their parents havn't indoctionated them to one beliefe yet, and that if it's not compulsory parents will still indoctionate most of their children, but that's just my idea. Anyone got another thought on this?

To be frank, parents will always be one step ahead when it comes to religious indoctrinization. As the elementary schools could care less about teaching different cultures, the child will already be indoctrined into his religion by the time he or she reaches middle school.
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Postby plk12345 » Fri May 11, 2007 9:42 pm

O'Brien wrote:Ehhh.... God still reeks of a shaky placeholder to me. Personally, I'd hope that humanity would instead just come to terms with the fact that some questions concerning science, history, and ect. may be left unaswered forever.


if you haven't noticed, men will always believe in god, or create an imaginary friend in your eyes. If you are one of those atheist missionaries, just forget about it. God will never be wiped of the face of the earth.

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