Should Creationism be taught in schools?

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Sat May 12, 2007 6:12 am

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DEATH TO THE CREATIONIST COCKROACHES!!!!! :twisted:

...............

I think this thread has gone past the point of no return. :P
Last edited by O'Brien on Sat May 12, 2007 6:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Every step back a step foward.
Every failure an extra opportunity for success.
Every day of defeat a victory!
Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Sat May 12, 2007 6:12 am

Schantrac wrote:SPS is aflame tonight..


Kyle wrote:Kyle says:
Your arch-enemy dumps you into one of the many dimensions he'd conquered, and Devon fishes you out of the sea. He tells you that you can help yourself to his food and any travel supplies you might need. So then you can take out a weapon and beat up him until your stats are maxed out. But it takes a really really long time.


Devon wrote:
Schantrac wrote:SPS is aflame tonight..
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat May 12, 2007 6:13 am

O'Brien wrote:
M00ndragon69 wrote:I have other boards I post at, and messing with people's heads online is fun. LOL

What you're telling us is that..... you're a troll all along?



Have I ever said I wasn't?..Well, actually I did, like 2 years ago, but a changed alot since then, so that is hardly relevent.

I wasn't a troll on here 3 years ago, but back then I hardly knew what a troll was.

Anyway, KTS, I meant what I said about wanting to talk to you on MSN. And, no, I am not doing that to ambush you with a bunch of insults. I am talking about having a nice conversation, find out what kind of person you really are, and what your interests are besides getting in pissing matches with PLK. If you wanna talk you had better hurry up and get on MSN, because I have to open tomorrow at my work, and I am going to bed early tonight.
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deathandecay
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Postby deathandecay » Sat May 12, 2007 6:13 am

M00ndragon69 wrote:.If you met me in person, you probably would have a hard time believing I am the same Moon bitch who posts here, because I am such a f*cking goody goody in person.


Wow, if flirting were made of strawberries, we'd be having alot of smoothies right now.
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat May 12, 2007 6:15 am

deathandecay wrote:
M00ndragon69 wrote:.If you met me in person, you probably would have a hard time believing I am the same Moon bitch who posts here, because I am such a f*cking goody goody in person.


Wow, if flirting were made of strawberries, we'd be having alot of smoothies right now.



LOL..Yeah, I am such a tease aren't I? How did you get flirting out of what I said? But, your right, strawberries are really sexy.
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Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Sat May 12, 2007 6:16 am

I am a big fan of Cheese-It crackers. Is anyone else?
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat May 12, 2007 6:17 am

Yeah, Cheeze its are good..So are Ritz crackers.
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deathandecay
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Postby deathandecay » Sat May 12, 2007 6:18 am

BLOOD ORGY!
O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Sat May 12, 2007 6:18 am

Sorry, I only like saltine crackers.
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Every step back a step foward.
Every failure an extra opportunity for success.
Every day of defeat a victory!
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat May 12, 2007 6:33 am

O'Brien wrote:Image

DEATH TO THE CREATIONIST COCKROACHES!!!!! :twisted:

...............

I think this thread has gone past the point of no return. :P



Heh, heh, heh..FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!!!


Goodnight, I am going to bed..Pleasant nightmares.
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plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Sat May 12, 2007 9:33 pm

all anti antisemitism comes from secular ideology. It is completely against christian values to discriminate against any group, jew or gentile. Most anti-semitism is against the jews as a race, not a religion. Now, people might exploit christianity for their own cause, but it is not real christianity
ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Sat May 12, 2007 9:51 pm

This thread has devolved into namecalling and vast off-topic debate. Yet again, the ones who claimed the strongest views on the subject managed to stray off of the subject. Good going guys.
That's how it's down here on the farm!
O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Sat May 12, 2007 10:25 pm

plk12345 wrote:all anti antisemitism comes from secular ideology. It is completely against christian values to discriminate against any group, jew or gentile. Most anti-semitism is against the jews as a race, not a religion. Now, people might exploit christianity for their own cause, but it is not real christianity

1. Many Christians in the Middle Ages, including some clerics, held the Jews collectively responsible for the death of Jesus. Former Catholic doctrine made money lending for interest a sin for Catholics, allowing Jews to dominate this business and eventually produce another reason for antisemitism. Jews were the most common people to be accused of blood libel, where they supposedly drank Christian children's blood to mock the Eucharist. The Fourth Lateran Council summoned by Pope Innocent III forced Jews to wear special clothing to distinguish themeselves from other Christians.

Simply declaring that all hatred of Jews stems from secular reasons is simply outrageous, given the heavy influence of Christianity throughout history.

2. Christian values in history have repeatedly meant jack-sh*t throughout Christianity's existance. These values didn't stop whites from discriminating blacks after the Civil War (not to mention what happened before), or the Spanish monarchy from expelling all Jews and Muslims, or from the Crusaders from slaughtering Jerusalem's population in the First Crusade. And let's not forget about the Inquisition and all those witch-hunts.

3. You conveniently ignore that Judaism is the one thing that binds all Jews. There can't be a Jewish race if there isn't Judaism in the first place. So undoubtedly Jewish beliefs play important roles in how they are percieved (one example being that Jews were allowed to lend money on interest to non-Jews).

4. "No true Scotsman" fallacy; just what is "real Christianity" anyway? Is it Catholicism, Orthodoxism, or Evangelicalism? As I've stated before, values don't have to mean anything and are free to be ignored at one's choosing.
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Every step back a step foward.
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plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Sun May 13, 2007 12:05 am

O'Brien wrote:
plk12345 wrote:all anti antisemitism comes from secular ideology. It is completely against christian values to discriminate against any group, jew or gentile. Most anti-semitism is against the jews as a race, not a religion. Now, people might exploit christianity for their own cause, but it is not real christianity

1. Many Christians in the Middle Ages, including some clerics, held the Jews collectively responsible for the death of Jesus. Former Catholic doctrine made money lending for interest a sin for Catholics, allowing Jews to dominate this business and eventually produce another reason for antisemitism. Jews were the most common people to be accused of blood libel, where they supposedly drank Christian children's blood to mock the Eucharist. The Fourth Lateran Council summoned by Pope Innocent III forced Jews to wear special clothing to distinguish themeselves from other Christians.

Simply declaring that all hatred of Jews stems from secular reasons is simply outrageous, given the heavy influence of Christianity throughout history.

2. Christian values in history have repeatedly meant jack-sh*t throughout Christianity's existance. These values didn't stop whites from discriminating blacks after the Civil War (not to mention what happened before), or the Spanish monarchy from expelling all Jews and Muslims, or from the Crusaders from slaughtering Jerusalem's population in the First Crusade. And let's not forget about the Inquisition and all those witch-hunts.

3. You conveniently ignore that Judaism is the one thing that binds all Jews. There can't be a Jewish race if there isn't Judaism in the first place. So undoubtedly Jewish beliefs play important roles in how they are percieved (one example being that Jews were allowed to lend money on interest to non-Jews).

4. "No true Scotsman" fallacy; just what is "real Christianity" anyway? Is it Catholicism, Orthodoxism, or Evangelicalism? As I've stated before, values don't have to mean anything and are free to be ignored at one's choosing.


well, its obvious where our fundamental disagreement is...

can these people be called christians?

there are two ways you can approach this question

1. did they follow the teachings of christianity? Were they doing what their dogma told them to do?

2. would this bigotry still exist without the christiain religion?

the answer to 1 is no. We are never told in the nt to kill those who reject jesus

the answer to 2 is yes. The jews would probably still be hated by these people without the christian religion. They would be hated as an ethnic group and a race if the christian religion did not exist.
O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Sun May 13, 2007 12:33 am

plk12345 wrote:1. did they follow the teachings of christianity? Were they doing what their dogma told them to do?

the answer to 1 is no. We are never told in the nt to kill those who reject jesus

Were Pope Innocent III, Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain, racist Southerners, and the crusaders who massacred the people of Jerusalem ever punished by their religion for violating dogma? They weren't by any means; Christianity has a very poor track record of preventing its followers from breaking religious values. As far as the Roman Catholics are concerned, anyone who's a Catholic remains so unless excommunicated, which never happened with the above cases I've mentioned.

2. would this bigotry still exist without the christiain religion?

the answer to 2 is yes. The jews would probably still be hated by these people without the christian religion. They would be hated as an ethnic group and a race if the christian religion did not exist.

How sure are you that another religion would not have filled the void to become Europe's dominant religion and tried to supress all others? Plus how can you perdict that without knowledge of Jesus's death, someone would still find a special reason to despise Jews? Christianity gave a very compelling excuse to persecute Jews; other people wouldn't have the motivation necessary to heavily discriminate aganist Judaism if it wasn't for Christianity. The Jews would have been yet another minority.
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