Do you believe in God?

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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Kyle the Skeptic
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Postby Kyle the Skeptic » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:03 am

I should have kept it simple and possibly monosyllabic.

I can agree with what Jesus taught without worshiping him as a deity.
I can acknowledge that a historical figure named Jesus existed and was executed by the Romans without believing in a bunch of miracles.
I can take away various lessons from the Gospels, just like any other book I might read, without literalizing the texts.

I have yet to hear a single so-called "hostile source" that confirms the miracles as literal events. Nevermind the fact that to focus on the miracles being real is to miss the point entirely. Most of these sources (and I'm pretty sure I know which one's he's referring to) talk about people who believed these things about Jesus, hence the miracle stories being mentioned.

Jesus did not go around calling himself a god. If someone were to have gone around doing that, even in the first century CE, it would have drawn out the men in white coats with butterfly nets to take him away. Jesus never said that. The author of the gospel of John said that, and it was an interpretive sign, not a direct quote.



Besides, this is all moot. Athe already killed Yahweh with her nukular flamethrower. :D
plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:05 am

Nommel wrote:
plk12345 wrote:homosexuality is a sin.


ANSWER FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL

WHY IS IT A SIN?

Give a valid reason, PLEASE.


well, because the law of moses said so. That is my reason. I am a Christian. You are a christian. We both should share the mutual belief that the law of moses is truth, correct? I am in no position to condemn you for your homosexual activity, or hate you for it, or abandon myself from you, but what i can do is say it is a sin. Inform you of your sin, just like i would inform everyone of any given sin. So my question to you is this: "if you are a christian, how do you reject the law, and if you do believe in the law, how do deny that homosexuality is a sin?

This is the rational discussion i had in mind. Now PLEASE, could we just forget about this sh*t and have some good discussion. I'm sorry, i'm sorry.
Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:16 am

Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?
plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:16 am

Kyle the Skeptic wrote:I should have kept it simple and possibly monosyllabic.

I can agree with what Jesus taught without worshiping him as a deity.
I can acknowledge that a historical figure named Jesus existed and was executed by the Romans without believing in a bunch of miracles.
I can take away various lessons from the Gospels, just like any other book I might read, without literalizing the texts.

I have yet to hear a single so-called "hostile source" that confirms the miracles as literal events. Nevermind the fact that to focus on the miracles being real is to miss the point entirely. Most of these sources (and I'm pretty sure I know which one's he's referring to) talk about people who believed these things about Jesus, hence the miracle stories being mentioned.

Jesus did not go around calling himself a god. If someone were to have gone around doing that, even in the first century CE, it would have drawn out the men in white coats with butterfly nets to take him away. Jesus never said that. The author of the gospel of John said that, and it was an interpretive sign, not a direct quote.



Besides, this is all moot. Athe already killed Yahweh with her nukular flamethrower. :D


just what i thought you would say. OF COURSE jesus didn't go around saying he was the son of god in public, his mission would have been a complete failure. If he just came out and said "i am god", it would have translated "i am Yahweh". People would just call him a crackhead, since they had no concept of the trinity. Jesus did claim he was god in every gospel. He used son of man and "son of god" when referring to himself countless times. He also claimed he was god in private several times. What was meant by "drink my blood, eat my flesh", etc all"
Matthew 26:64
Luke 22:70
John 1:49-50

f*ck it, im not going on, im just spewting out a bunch of bullsh*t and exposing your fallacies
plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:17 am

Nommel wrote:Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?


yes, i truly think it is wrong to be gay. Just like everything else written in the law. I can love homosexuals and still think it is wrong to be homosexual. It is written in the law, you see?
Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:18 am

plk12345 wrote:f*ck it, im not going on, im just spewting out a bunch of bullsh*t and exposing your fallacies


That made no sense. :lol:
Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:20 am

plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?


yes, i truly think it is wrong to be gay.


Let's pay attention to that part specifically. Why do you, personally, believe it is wrong to be gay? Religious laws aside, what is so evil to you about it?
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:21 am

Amazing how a thread like this can create this kind of sh*t. I go away for three or four hours to go watch a movie and this thread grows by three pages and has what is pretty much some personal attacks and some very angry "debating" between certain individuals. You know what, no matter what you believe about God we are all in the same boat. The existence of God can not be proven or disproven, and no one is going to know for sure until they die. It is a question of faith. So, why be assh*les to people who don't believe the same way you do? Don't most religions preach that one should treat other people the way they would want to be treated?


But PLK does not do anything to make Christianity look very good. PLK, it is the attitude you display on the board that makes people want to be athetists or maybe even convert to Satanism just to piss people like you off. You say homosexuality is wrong, but can you logically explain why it is wrong without saying "because the Bible says so" or without referencing a bunch of anti gay websites? I don't think you can. I bet you don't even know any gay people. You lack the ability to show empathy for people who do things against what the bible says, and that really turns alot of people off on Christianity and makes your whole faith look bad. You keep saying that your religion is about love, but when I look at what you say on this board, I am not seeing love I am seeing judgement of people you don't even know. You pretty much are supporting KTS's view on how people of your religion act, more so every time you get in one of these arguements. Basically you are not doing your religion any favors by getting into these flame wars, all you are doing is proving all the athetists on the board right.
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Kyle the Skeptic
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Postby Kyle the Skeptic » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:25 am

I already tried making fun of him. That didn't work.

"Son of Man" was not always a messianic title, and it was not originally used that way in the Old Testament. It literally meant "human being" or "offspring of Adam" in that context. Jesus in fact used it as a humble self-reference. He was not saying, "I AM GAWD!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_Man

Also, I'd like to see an answer to the question. Why does he personally think it's wrong to be gay? Just because some really old guy in a really old book said so? :roll:
Last edited by Kyle the Skeptic on Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
plk12345
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Postby plk12345 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:25 am

Nommel wrote:
plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?


yes, i truly think it is wrong to be gay.


Let's pay attention to that part specifically. Why do you, personally, believe it is wrong to be gay? Religious laws aside, what is so evil to you about it?


we're getting incredibly off topic here, but fine, i will explain why

i believe it goes against natural law and natural order. Homosexual relationships are just not how it was meant to be. Simply, it is unnatural. The idea of homosexuals getting married goes against my belief in natural order. The opposite genders are obviously meant to be together for reproduction, and that is natural.

i didn't present myself well there, now did i. Well, i think i got the point across anyway
O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:32 am

plk12345 wrote:The idea of homosexuals getting married goes against my belief in natural order. The opposite genders are obviously meant to be together for reproduction, and that is natural.

Hate to break it to you, but humanity has evolved so that it can break the natural order. Marriage never existed at all in the animal kingdom until we came along, so that institution itself goes aganist natural order. Going by natural order, anything that's injured, old, or diseased should die because they can't sustain themselves anymore. While this applies to lesser animals, humans have demostrated a need to care for those who can't fend for themselves. If we can regard individuals who would have perished under true "natural order" as fully human, shouldn't the same principles apply to those who can't reproduce (like homosexual and infertile people)?
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M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:33 am

That is a weak f*cking arguement because sexuality isn't just about making babies. So are straight couples who like to f*ck but choose not to have kids ( and no I am not talking about them having an abortion but taking birth control) or people who are infertile and have alot of sex sinners in your world view too? I mean they are f*cking for reasons other than procreation...LOL..

PLK, you don't even have a clue what you are talking about. I am bi. I know how it feels to be attracted to members of the same sex..I am not ashamed of it now..But I was when I was in middle school, because basically I knew the kind of crap I would get if any of my assh*le classmates found out I was attracted to other girls. But now that I am in my 20's I am not ahamed at all, infact f*ck all the homophobes of the world who have a problem with me. In my experience, people do not choose who they are sexually attracted to, the only choice there is in that matter is if they choose to act on those feelings. I don't believe you know crap about these things beyond you blindly following what your pastor and the Bible says.So, until you are really willing to sit down and listen to someone who is gay talk about their experiences without judging them, or until you come out as someone who has had homosexual desires that you are repressing, I think you need to shut the f*ck up..Your ignorant.
Last edited by M00ndragon69 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MaxwellsSilverHammer
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Postby MaxwellsSilverHammer » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:36 am

plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:
plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?


yes, i truly think it is wrong to be gay.


Let's pay attention to that part specifically. Why do you, personally, believe it is wrong to be gay? Religious laws aside, what is so evil to you about it?


we're getting incredibly off topic here, but fine, i will explain why

i believe it goes against natural law and natural order. Homosexual relationships are just not how it was meant to be. Simply, it is unnatural. The idea of homosexuals getting married goes against my belief in natural order. The opposite genders are obviously meant to be together for reproduction, and that is natural.

i didn't present myself well there, now did i. Well, i think i got the point across anyway



Argh.. *shakes head*

So, you think relationships are all about procreation, nothing more? Strange how asexuals can still have happy relationships, then. *ahem, ahem.*

LOVE IS LOVE. Being in love with someone has nothing to do with the ability to make babies or not. It's about the bond you and the other person share spiritually, not whether or not you can BREED together, for goodness' sake. Schan and I are both asexual, and yet we're happier with each other than we've ever been with anyone else.


EDIT: Damn, I need to learn how to type faster or something. XD
Last edited by MaxwellsSilverHammer on Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nommel
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Postby Nommel » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:36 am

plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:
plk12345 wrote:
Nommel wrote:Tell me, do you personally think it's wrong to be gay?


yes, i truly think it is wrong to be gay.


Let's pay attention to that part specifically. Why do you, personally, believe it is wrong to be gay? Religious laws aside, what is so evil to you about it?


we're getting incredibly off topic here, but fine, i will explain why

i believe it goes against natural law and natural order. Homosexual relationships are just not how it was meant to be. Simply, it is unnatural. The idea of homosexuals getting married goes against my belief in natural order. The opposite genders are obviously meant to be together for reproduction, and that is natural.

i didn't present myself well there, now did i. Well, i think i got the point across anyway


No, you didn't do it well. But yeah, you did get the point across: You're still hell-bent on forcing everyone to accept your view that everything in the Bible is LITERAL, despite the fact that you've tried to camoflauge your extremism somewhat lately.
Schantrac
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Postby Schantrac » Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:49 am

Congrats plk.. I don't hate too many people, as it is not my nature, but after reading all of this sh*t you've come up with, you've made it on my hate list. Congratulations.

relationships are all about nothing more than PROCREATION...

give me a break... ><

So your saying all relationships are nothing more than one night stands? There's no actual feeling there.. just the need of wanting to f*ck someone.. according to your views.

You have absolutely NO f*cking idea of what your talking about. I'm in love, and I have absolutely NO need/want to "procreate" .. I'm just happy being with them. How about you read a little before you make posts full of crap.
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