One for all you YANKS out there; reply or DIE!

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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SuperMaids
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One for all you YANKS out there; reply or DIE!

Postby SuperMaids » Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:50 am

I am not, never have been nor do I want to live if I ever become a piece of liberal hippy douchbag scum. But when it comes to the gun laws in the land of the free, I’m always intrigued to hear the excuses of the right, if only because every discussion between Americans on the issue produces the most hilariously illogical arguments since the last time Jack Thompson opened the ass he calls his mouth to sh*t all over the first amendment.
As funny as these political flamewars can be when conducted between presidential candidates, I feel the time has come to inject your colonial brains with all the wisdom the old world has to offer on the subject. If you disagree with any of the points I’m about to make, don’t be afraid to flame them all to hell; if you think before you type and you might be able to convert me into joining the gun club.
In America, money is synonymous with power; the weapons manufacturers use their power to influence the media (via sponsorship deals, advertisements and ‘gifts’ to news editors and film executives) to run stories and show movies implying a rising crime violent rate (even when the rate of such crimes is falling), which in turn influences the population of America, a population of potential customers, into thinking they have a rational reason to own a firearm.
Criminals are depicted in advertisements and films as sub-human creatures deserving only a slow and painful death, or failing that the kind of quick and painless one a gun can bring, thus making people more inclined to use lethal force on people committing acts they consider to be criminal, for example breaking into their homes, even when so many effective non-deadly arms are available.
Unfortunately for the populace (and very fortunately for the nation’s legal arms dealers) the definition of a criminal act is very subjective; some may consider an insult or a punch to the face criminal enough to result in drawing and using a gun. Of course, this view isn’t shared by the majority of people in the nation, and the gun user is added to the list of violent offenders; however, such people are only so violent in the first place due to the dehumanising and paranoia-enhancing efforts of the nations legal arms dealers!
Many Americans think that crime is such a great threat to their lives they need ‘protection’; while crime is on my list of things to rationally fear, it’s not very high thanks to such mundane yet common horrors as traffic accidents, accidents in general, psychiatrists in general, deadly mutations in disease and so forth.
Before anyone replies that gun control laws didn’t diminish the rate of violent crime in the UK, I suggest they look at the actual crime rates in the country (and take into account other factors like our sh*tty leadership over the past decade and our out of control levels of immigration from the life and death nations of the third world), and don’t bring your constitution into this, not only because it’s as archaic and outdated as the Mosaic laws of the Bible, but because the second amendment doesn’t even give you the right to own a gun! It lets you ‘bear arms,’ a phrase who’s meaning has changed a lot more than American society since the writing of the constitution
Staticians agree that loweing gun laws increases the chance of violent crime, but it’s not all good news on the prohibition front; England’s crime rate, even when mass third world immigration and decreasing wealth are taken into account, didn’t drop in crime as much as expected when guns were removed. This is because, like most things, guns are more useful in practice than they are in theory. This is why I favour tight gun laws that psychologically vet all weapon carriers, and strict laws on gun advertising and sponsorship deals, but which still allow some guns into the nation, for militia purposes, as seen in Sweeden.
marvel_freak_42
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Postby marvel_freak_42 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:30 am

Yawn... ranting isn't going to do sh*t, man, especially if you're on the other side of the pond.
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SuperMaids
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Gun Laws

Postby SuperMaids » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:26 am

Should they be tightened or loosened, or kept the same?
In the USA that is. I'm really curious because my mind and heart both object to guns (gun companies violence inducing ads and sponsership deals, "love thy enemy" be my motto in self defence especially with tazers and stun guns) but staticians (the same ones who think global warming killed the world in 1800s) say that as gun laws are loosened more violent crime occurs.
What do you guys think?
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Thunderhorse
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Postby Thunderhorse » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:34 am

I say we don't need any more butchering of our Bill of Rights. Let us have our weapons.
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Grizim
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Postby Grizim » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 am

Thunderhorse wrote:I say we don't need any more butchering of our Bill of Rights. Let us have our weapons.
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soulsforsale5s
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Postby soulsforsale5s » Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:07 am

Well, I think there should be a system to keep track of who has guns and to keep them out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill people. But that's IT! We have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
"If you love someone, set them free. If they come back, set them on fire."
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Edduyasha
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Postby Edduyasha » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:56 am

soulsforsale5s wrote:Well, I think there should be a system to keep track of who has guns and to keep them out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill people. But that's IT! We have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms.


Agreed.

:wink:

I plan to get a concealed weapons licence when I come of age...the state laws are pretty leinent with that kind of stuff where I live...
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Lord Dunderhead
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Reply to Supermaid's YANK's thread

Postby Lord Dunderhead » Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:56 am

First of all.... Big-Will I'm not gonna post any wierd links or anything I just wanted to give my reply. In fact I'm not gonna give any links at all.

Personally I never bring up the whole "constitutional right" to own a gun because theres really no point. I would however say that there is rational reason to own a firearm, but this is a double-edge sword here. On one end even though there may be reason to own a gun... most people don't have the "rational of mind" to use one correctly. It's suppose to be a last line of defense because quite frankly the police can't be at your side at light speed. What are you gonna do in the meantime? I mean non-deadly weapons can buy you time and save your life too no argument there, but a non-deadly weapon is a non deadly weapon. I know the chance may be rare but it can very well come down to either you or them. I would rather have a gun and not need it then to need it and not have one... now does that mean that I should have something as ridiculous as a shotgun? No, if anything people should only be allowed to have a standard issue pistol, this is self-defense we're talking about, you don't need a god damn automatic shitkicking hand cannon unless you live in yellow stone, and you to keep Yogi the bear of your back.

/shrug.

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SuperMaids
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Postby SuperMaids » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:52 pm

Tazers and stun guns can bring people down for hours, and soon they'll be able to make 'em sleep for days, in no more or less time than it takes to aim the weapon and pull the trigger on any weapon. When then would it ever come to a 'kill or be killed' situation?
Constituational rights are the same as mosaic laws; old and potentially dangerous. Still, you DON'T have a right to keep and bear arms unless you're in a millitia, according to the founding fathers (things in recent years may have changed, just saying the foudning fathers only let millitias have guns, that's all).
More confused than ever about gun laws now that i've read the book "more guns; less crime." Staticians (who know MATHS!) say in it that loosening gun laws decreases the rate of violent crime, and increasiong them increases the rate. This goes against everything I could ever rationally think, because less gun sponserships and fear culture should deter people from killing, but they have NUMBERS, and you can't argue with NUMBERS unless you're a priest! Which I'm not btw.
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Lord Dunderhead
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Postby Lord Dunderhead » Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:00 am

SuperMaids wrote:Tazers and stun guns can bring people down for hours, and soon they'll be able to make 'em sleep for days, in no more or less time than it takes to aim the weapon and pull the trigger on any weapon. When then would it ever come to a 'kill or be killed' situation?
Constituational rights are the same as mosaic laws; old and potentially dangerous. Still, you DON'T have a right to keep and bear arms unless you're in a millitia, according to the founding fathers (things in recent years may have changed, just saying the foudning fathers only let millitias have guns, that's all).
More confused than ever about gun laws now that i've read the book "more guns; less crime." Staticians (who know MATHS!) say in it that loosening gun laws decreases the rate of violent crime, and increasiong them increases the rate. This goes against everything I could ever rationally think, because less gun sponserships and fear culture should deter people from killing, but they have NUMBERS, and you can't argue with NUMBERS unless you're a priest! Which I'm not btw.


True perhaps the situation may never come up but thats assuming people don't grow smart enough to simply lets say... wear clothing that negates weapons such as stun guns and tazers ( which I've heard actually exists but I've never seen one). Now I have no idea whether such material would be easily obtainable, on a more disturbing note apparently it's possible to grow a resistance to the effects of stun guns and tazers... how much of a resistance? Well theres been some stories of inmates who basically got shocked so often that the guards don't even bother with the tazers anymore, but as far as I know they're just stories

However, running into such an individual would still be pretty rare, but I can say that every time I hear something like "When then would it ever come to a 'kill or be killed' situation?" life always craps all over that, and in many cases it does so in the most unsual manner. Ever heard the phrase "life finds a way?" it's the same with death.

I guess I can give ya my view on why increasing gun laws also increase crime. Probably the most obvious to me is the fact that if gun laws are increased that means the public or *Pray* in the eyes of the criminal are more helpless. Sure they may have a tazer but a gun has range and can shoot through walls, easy pray in their minds. Another reason is the fact that criminals need weapons, and if such item is hard to get that means the price is jacked up on the black market... so they simply work harder. Now if everyone was packing a shot gun you better believe that criminal is gonna think twice about attacking anybody seeing as anyone can pretty much blow his brains out, so unless this dude has a gang thats bigger then the population of the city... he ain't pulling jack. Also people tend to have a higher respect for each other when they know that anyone can blow their head off.

/shrug

Then again, I'm not called dunderhead for nothing.
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SuperMaids
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Postby SuperMaids » Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:21 pm

True perhaps the situation may never come up but thats assuming people don't grow smart enough to simply lets say... wear clothing that negates weapons such as stun guns and tazers ( which I've heard actually exists but I've never seen one).

Which is so different from wearing bullet proof vests, which don't make people invunrable to attack in any way and are way more difficult to obtain than antistun gun vests. Neither of which would work if people learnt to aim for the head .
on a more disturbing note apparently it's possible to grow a resistance to the effects of stun guns and tazers... how much of a resistance?

We're just talking about people attacking you on the street here, who've probably never been stunned before, not criminals in jail that've been stunned every day for years. I've never heard of a 'resistance' to zapper guns before, but just changing the type of chemical in a tranquiliser gun would negate any resistance from one of them that could build up (it'd take years to build up, and considering the crim would go to jail the moment they've been stunned, which would buy the poliece hours or days even to get there) i don't think we need to worry about this reseistane thing much.

My oppinion on the EVIL of guns is probbably (ok definitely) jaded by living in a gun free society all my life, but the reasons you just gave in your last paragraph (the reasons all amricans seem to give me) just reinforces my view that guns cause crime, or rather the fear of guns. Increasing the fear in criminals minds about who they target's simply going to make them use more devious and calculating methods and pray on weaker people in my oppinion.
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Lord Dunderhead
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Postby Lord Dunderhead » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:34 am

SuperMaids wrote:
True perhaps the situation may never come up but thats assuming people don't grow smart enough to simply lets say... wear clothing that negates weapons such as stun guns and tazers ( which I've heard actually exists but I've never seen one).

Which is so different from wearing bullet proof vests, which don't make people invunrable to attack in any way and are way more difficult to obtain than antistun gun vests. Neither of which would work if people learnt to aim for the head .
on a more disturbing note apparently it's possible to grow a resistance to the effects of stun guns and tazers... how much of a resistance?

We're just talking about people attacking you on the street here, who've probably never been stunned before, not criminals in jail that've been stunned every day for years. I've never heard of a 'resistance' to zapper guns before, but just changing the type of chemical in a tranquiliser gun would negate any resistance from one of them that could build up (it'd take years to build up, and considering the crim would go to jail the moment they've been stunned, which would buy the poliece hours or days even to get there) i don't think we need to worry about this resistance thing much.

My opinion on the EVIL of guns is probably (ok definitely) jaded by living in a gun free society all my life, but the reasons you just gave in your last paragraph (the reasons all Americans seem to give me) just reinforces my view that guns cause crime, or rather the fear of guns. Increasing the fear in criminals minds about who they target's simply going to make them use more devious and calculating methods and pray on weaker people in my opinion.


Well criminals have pretty much always prayed on those they see as weaker, it's kinda what defines them I guess. I wouldn't say that gun's or the fear of guns cause crime. I would say people cause crime. For a good while now, it really hasn't matter what the object is... be it guns, money, what have you. There has always been a couple of bad apples that take advantage over whatever they can for their own ends even if it means ruining or taking the lives of everyone in their way. Is this logical? I would say no, however people are also about as much emotion as reason so to speak and others just don't care. So perhaps your view is Jaded, /shrug * Who am I to judge? *... for all I know mine could be too, I grew up in an environment where people where shot because of gang violence or whatever other reason. People tend to think survival in whatever form they can find it when faced with something like that.
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SuperMaids
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Postby SuperMaids » Thu Sep 06, 2007 12:53 am

I would say people cause crime

But why do people cause drime? What makes a person want to maim, rape or brutally slaughter another? Answer me that and you get a pretty, shiny E-penny. But you're not going to get a pretty, shiny E-penny or even a dirty grimy one because NO ONE has ever been able to work out why people commit crimes.
We've only been able to find out what things make people more likely to go mentalist, things like guns.
I grew up in an environment where people where shot because of gang violence

Not because of gang violence, because of whatever caused the gang violence.
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phatcartman655
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Postby phatcartman655 » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:10 am

that's growing up in the ghetto.
Lord Dunderhead
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Postby Lord Dunderhead » Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:11 am

SuperMaids wrote:
I would say people cause crime

But why do people cause drime? What makes a person want to maim, rape or brutally slaughter another? Answer me that and you get a pretty, shiny E-penny. But you're not going to get a pretty, shiny E-penny or even a dirty grimy one because NO ONE has ever been able to work out why people commit crimes.
We've only been able to find out what things make people more likely to go mentalist, things like guns.
I grew up in an environment where people where shot because of gang violence

Not because of gang violence, because of whatever caused the gang violence.


Actually the question has been answered before... people just tend not to listen.

The reason people Maim, rape, and commit brutality is because of a f*cked up bringing or environment which can warp a persons mind... why do you think good parenting ( or what we think is good parenting) is so heavily stressed, why people are hounded so much about responsibility and to think before they act. Really, this isn't anything thats out of this world. Have you ever observed a child before? Have you taken notice as to what they pick up on?

From what I can tell, children are born innocent to the world around them, they're basically a sponge that absorbs whatever happens to be in reach. If the parents have for example bad manners or a warped morality what do you think the kid is gonna be?

Or hey heres a better one, what do you think an environment thats gun free such as the one you come from may produce? Or an environment like the one I was in? Or hey how about something worse like holocausts, and fields of burning bodies, chopped up body parts left on the streets, horrible mutilations simply because the other person was of a different tribe, sex, opinion, religion, etc...

My point is all of that... absolutely all of that is the reason to why you have f*cked up people in the world. Not only is it not some sort of hidden secret, it's staring you in the face. You look at the lives of some of the worst people around you'll find some pretty messed up stuff... not necessarily stuff done to them but stuff they where taught as being acceptable to do to other people, Ignorance also has a very large hand in this as well, and this sh*t ranges from the common thug to Stalin.

So NO, things like guns are not what cause people to do bad things, thats just trying to dumb responsibility on an easy way out.
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