Would you go gay... for God?!

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superiorsavior
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Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby superiorsavior » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:36 pm

Hypothetical scenario I stole from another forum:

Heterosexual romances are suddenly revealed by god to immoral and sinful,moreover, god for some reason god wants you to have intercourse and seek out monogamous romances with those of the same sex, eventually leading up to marriage which god re-defines as 'a holy union between two men or two women'.

Now then, many of the religious see homosexual relationships as evil, immoral, sinful, ect, and because of this belief, they try to turn them straight, or demand of celibacy of them. So now I'm putting the shoe on they other foot and asking you how you would feel and what you would do.

If this were 'revealed' to you, what would you do?
Would you pray for forgiveness every time you fancied someone of the opposite gender?
Would you break off your heterosexual relationship, even a marriage?
Would you attempt to change your orientation to gay? Attending seminars, reading books, going to workshops, camps, etc.
Would you become celibate? Refusing to seek out love for the rest of your life?
Would you seek out a homosexual relationship even if you didn't love the person?
Would you have sex with someone of the same gender as the lord commands you to?
Would you send your kids off to be raised by a gay couple and never see them again?

Would you refuse every natural impulse inside of you, in the name of faith? Would you do it because the pope told you to or some sh*t like that? Or would you fight it though, say this is wrong, that god wants me to be happy the way I am? That all my children need is love and a soft hand to guide them?

So how about you then hmm? Would you go gay for Jesus?

Don't flame-war over this, i just thought it was a kick-ass post, especially with all the talk of the WBC.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Big-Will » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:04 pm

I'd continue as I would if heterosexuality were still moral. I'd still want kids, after all. :)

Then I'd wonder how God could still be God if he changed his mind like that, throwing away what he once held sacred. I'd lose my faith in him. It wouldn't matter if the next revelation is that Jesus did marry Mary Magdalene and had kids by her.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby superiorsavior » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:10 pm

I stole this from an actual religious forum and no one pointed that out. They were too up their own asses (Pun wholy intended) about the issue, they said they would do whatever god/the church told them to do because they need a big sky daddy in rome, instead of looking at how STUPID the hypothetical situation is.

So congrats will, you officially beat a whole site worth of Kyle The Skeptic and PLK's respective clones. I'm unworthy to be in a thread with you!
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:58 pm

This may be because I am a heathen, but I don't get why the idea that "god" would change his mind about anything would be important enough to loose faith. If any of the gods are real, why wouldn't they change their minds about things, because isn't the belief that humans were made in the image of God? Look at us,we change our minds all the time. Not necessarily because we are hypocrits and flip floppers but because we see things all the time in our lives that challenge the way we think about things. If the gods of any religion are real, wouldn't it be the same for them, and couldn't that mean they might change their mind about something written in some holy scripture? I think the idea that a god would just stick to the scriptures that were written thousands of years ago and never change his or her mind about anything no matter what has changed in the world is more of an idea that would lead people to questioning their faith than the idea that God might change his/her mind over the centuries. And for the record, what is so f*cking sacred about the idea that homosexuality is immoral and sex is just for procreation? Too many people procreating is killing Mother Earth, take a look around at the huge numbers of people, and look at all the garbage they produce. I see it every f*cking day at my job. And do you really believe that crap about gays being immoral came directly from God, or did it come from the people in Rome who put together the Bible about 300 years after Jesus died?

To answer your question, I wouldn't change..Nothing is going to change me from being bisexual. I am attracted to men and women, that is the way it is going to be. If it was suddenly declared that hetrosexual relationships were immoral, I would point and laugh at all the hypocrits who had suddenly gone gay to please God.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Big-Will » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:07 pm

M00ndragon69 wrote:And do you really believe that crap about gays being immoral came directly from God, or did it come from the people in Rome who put together the Bible about 300 years after Jesus died?

Ehhh, not from Rome, since that belief is found in the Old Testament, which was around for centuries before Christ.

M00ndragon69 wrote:This may be because I am a heathen, but I don't get why the idea that "god" would change his mind about anything would be important enough to loose faith.

When the god you grow up with is said to be "the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow," a change as radical as switching the morality of homosexuality and heterosexuality either makes him a liar or shows that he's been capricious this entire time. As it is, we won't protest if he decides to change his mind about a punishment, or to do things that are impossible in nature or science, but we'd wonder what the hell is wrong with him if he should hand down a list of moral laws and then, millennia later, decide that he made a mistake about the morality of sexual preference.

As for why homosexuality was condemned in Moses' day, well, God didn't want his people to be like the people around them, some of whom practiced homosexuality openly.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby superiorsavior » Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:30 am

will wrote:As for why homosexuality was condemned in Moses' day, well, God didn't want his people to be like the people around them, some of whom practiced homosexuality openly.


That's the reason the Isralites didn't approve of homosexual activity; not why God didn't or apparently didn't. Don't confuse the will of God and that of "His people." But yeah, that's basically what's said about the issue.

will wrote:if he should hand down a list of moral laws and then, millennia later, decide that he made a mistake about the morality of sexual preference.

God changing his mind, reminds me of Jesus's defiance of half the Levitican laws, for some unknowable reason.

Also, the old testemant may have given laws regarding sexual preference, but it only gave it once (The other two apparent instances of homosexual condemnation, Soddom and a story in Judges, are mistranslations from hebrew and infered condemnation even if not mistranslated), and Jesus didn't even mention homosecuality (St. Paul was obsessed with male prostitution/pedophilia, which wss mistranslated from greek into latin as homosexuality)

The condemnation really is mainly a latterday church teaching (first millenia onwards) based on Aquines views on natural law. Read Summa Theologia (question 96) if you want to see why catholics (and all denominations somewhat based on Catholicism) are against homosexuality. The orthadox churches have always taken the old testement commandment as authoritive, as have Jews.

will wrote:When the god you grow up with is said to be "the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow," a change as radical as switching the morality of homosexuality and heterosexuality either makes him a liar or shows that he's been capricious this entire time.

Well, he does work in mysterious ways. Maybe it's best for us to be gay now, for a reason we don't know, and was wrong before, say, HIV drugs, male/male and female/female procreation (soon to be a posibility) and condoms became readily available. We have that quote in HUGE letters on our church, right opposite the college I go to/ the local mall, just thought i'd tell you!

MOON wrote:I would point and laugh at all the hypocrits who had suddenly gone gay to please God.

while I'd laugh at their slavish loyalty, they wouldn't be hypocrits. They only hate gays (even the WBC says) because God is (apparently) against it.

MOON wrote:I wouldn't change..Nothing is going to change me from being bisexual. I am attracted to men and women, that is the way it is going to be.

Couldn't have said it bettter myself. You don't consciously chpoose who you're attracted to, which is why these "cure gayness" camps are such crap. You can not act on the desire, but it's still there, right?!

MOON wrote:Too many people procreating is killing Mother Earth

I hate overpopulation. It's the source of SO many problems on the plannet. Which is what i've got a serious beef weith the "pro-lifers" wo are really condemning the earth to (what they see as it's scripturally predestined) death.

MOON wrote:did it come from the people in Rome who put together the Bible about 300 years after Jesus died?

It was mainly saint Paul, who hated "homosexuality" although he was really against pedophilia. The emphasis upon the old testement teaching (good old Leviticus 18:22) and the "natural law" to procreate were given by the church though. MILLENIA after.

MOON wrote:If the gods of any religion are real, wouldn't it be the same for them

If God is all powerful it wouldn't change it's mind; however, changing commandments isn't changing it's mind, it's addapting to new situations perhaps. It could know something we don't.

MOON wrote:what is so f*cking sacred about the idea that homosexuality is immoral

Whoa! I'm not against homosexuals! I don't wanna jump of a bridge because i'm incurably evil! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)

Just read in the New Scientist that it'll soon be possible for male eggs and female sperm to be produced, therefore opening procreation to gays and lesbians. What effect will this have on the church, who's main reason to oppose homosexuality (in light of Jesus's rejection of most of the Levitican laws) being that they cannot procreate. Will this signal a "change in god's mind?"
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Pip Tweek » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:02 am

I find this a really interesting question; the gay factor is almost irrelevant when you take into consideration that, in this scenario, it would be the first time God revealed Himself to humanity and directly gave a distinct moral directive.

Before anyone would ponder the hypothetical commandment of going gay, the atheists and agnostics would see that there is a god and this would change the world in ways we couldn't comprehend.

The answer to the actual question is pretty much a foregone conclusion for anyone who is truly honest with themselves and the motive for posing the question is obvious, but it includes the certainty of the existence of god and the element of unquestionable moral prerogatives of god which don't exist in reality.

The bottom line is, you're not going to convince people who think that homosexuality is immoral that homosexuality is not immoral if they're wrapped up in their dogmatic views of a tidy little world of black and white. No matter who you are or what you believe, you're always going to be subjected to some narrow-minded idiot's view of the world. Some people are smart and enlightened and some people are stupid and ignorant and most people are somewhere in between. That's the world we live in.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby superiorsavior » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:14 am

a foregone conclusion for anyone who is truly honest with themselves

What's the answer then? It could be either way, depending on weather you believe God is good if he exists (fullstop) or weather you believe your rational decisions are the most important (fullstop). It depends weather you're Abraham, weather you'd kill your own kid if God told you to, or weather you're Aaron, who defied God to do as he thought right.

if they're wrapped up in their dogmatic views of a tidy little world of black and white


The christians arn't supposed to see the world as a war between Blacks and Whites anymore, i thought!
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Pip Tweek » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:37 am

The christians arn't supposed to see the world as a war between Blacks and Whites anymore, i thought!


I meant "black and white" in terms of "no gray area" or "absolute right and wrong."
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby superiorsavior » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:10 am

I know... i was trying to be funny. Probably not the best thread! Most harcore evangelists seem to have borderline personality disorder, they really have no sight for gray!
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Big-Will » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:39 am

Female sperm? Male eggs? Oh my Science!

superiorsavior wrote:male/male and female/female procreation (soon to be a possibility).

That ...wouldn't do anything to reduce overpopulation. :P

superiorsavior wrote:The orthadox churches have always taken the old testement commandment as authoritive, as have Jews.

Ya think? This reads like the Catholic position. But then, that was 1984. How much has changed in 24 years? Many Conservative Jews feel the same way Orthodox and Catholic believers do.

People have a hard time believing that we Christians are condemning the act, not the person. Or maybe Christians fail to see that the act is the person - that if we're condemning homosexual acts, we're condemning homosexuals themselves. We can't do anything about that kind of thinking but to continue saying that we'll speak out against the acts. If God were to come out and say that homosexual acts are moral, we'd think he's off his rocker, as I said before, but whatcha gonna do, huh?

superiorsavior wrote:Jesus didn't even mention homosecuality

He didn't need to. This is all he needed to say about it: "They have the law and the prophets. If they hearkened not to them, neither will they hearken to me." But he was talking about his own people, the Jews, who obviously heard the Law and the Prophets in their synagogues and thus knew what they said about homosexual acts. Paul had to explain it to converts who didn't read the Old Testament like we do now.

Now, back to the list of questions in the OP:
superiorsavior wrote:If this were 'revealed' to you, what would you do?

Would you pray for forgiveness every time you fancied someone of the opposite gender?

No.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you break off your heterosexual relationship, even a marriage?

No.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you attempt to change your orientation to gay? Attending seminars, reading books, going to workshops, camps, etc.

No, for it would profit me nothing.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you become celibate? Refusing to seek out love for the rest of your life?

No, for I would remember a time when God said heterosexual sex was the norm. I haven't seen a religious text that codified them as the norm at one point, though I know of homosexuality being celebrated in Rome and ancient Greece, and in the Renaissance.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you seek out a homosexual relationship even if you didn't love the person?

No. Nor would I see why a homosexual person would seek out a heterosexual relationship, even though I see that happening.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you have sex with someone of the same gender as the lord commands you to?

No, for I would not have an interest in such a thing. He would no longer be my lord if he commanded me to. Nor do I see it commanded that a homosexual person should have sex with a heterosexual person.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you send your kids off to be raised by a gay couple and never see them again?

No, for they are mine. If they are forcibly taken from me, I'd fight to get them back.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you refuse every natural impulse inside of you, in the name of faith?

No, since it would no longer be my faith.

superiorsavior wrote:Would you do it because the pope told you to or some sh*t like that?

No, since the faith the pope would preach would not be the one I grew up with.

superiorsavior wrote:Or would you fight it though, say this is wrong, that god wants me to be happy the way I am? That all my children need is love and a soft hand to guide them?

This is what I would do.

superiorsavior wrote:So how about you then hmm? Would you go gay for Jesus?

No, since he would not be the Jesus I grew up with.

Which leads me to ask why any homosexual would want to become a Christian, if they had to answer "no" to the questions I answered "no" to. I mean, seriously...
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby KennyKicksAss » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:49 pm

I don't wanna go to hell but I wouldn't give up sex either so I'd have to be constantly drugged up out my mind.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby vexille » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:38 pm

Would I go gay for God/Yahwa/Allah/Ha'Shem?

Well here are three alternate replies:


Athiest reply: I wouldn't let any fairytale character tell me what to do.

Polythiest reply: I don't answer to that prick.

Dumbass reply: God hates f*gs. Eeets in thar bible.
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:03 am

Why would I change my sexuality for something I don't belive in? I like living my life the way I am now, with no god ruling every day of my life....
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Re: Would you go gay... for God?!

Postby Blue Twilight » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:32 am

Since when is love a sin? Isn't one of the most important lessons of the Bible to "love one another as yourself?"

Personally, as an asexual (type B heterosexual, only interested in romantic activity) and having no interest in sex whatsoever, this question doesn't seem of use to me. If God wanted the world to be heterosexual, then he would have made all of us heterosexual, end of story.

Just because I'm asexual doesn't mean I don't know how to love. I've had my fair share of boyfriends and several guys I've fallen madly in love with, plus I love my friends and family dearly. We humans were put on this earth to do more than simply reproduce. We were given the capacity to *love*, not simply spit out babies and expect them to do the same.

I doubt God is as concerned about reproduction as he is about people following his teachings to love one another.

Anyway, that's my two cents.
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