Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

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CaptainCameron
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Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:04 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_re_eu/georgia_south_ossetia

'Tis a breaking news story, it is rapidly changing. Georgia invaded the breakaway province of South Ossetia hours after a cease fire was declared. Reasoning? Murky- all sides say the other commited the first act of aggression. Timing wise, the start of the Olympics provides an interesting angle.
Georgia claims to have shot down Russian military aircraft and that their air bases have been bombed by Russian planes. Georgia controls the capital of South Ossetia, but Russian ground forces are on the way. Fierce fighting in the capital. 10 Russian peacekeepers were killed in an attack earlier, 30 wounded. Dozens are dead.
pdfsmail
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby pdfsmail » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:21 pm

Very interesting development.

The timing with the Olympics will make this quite interesting.
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CaptainCameron
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:30 pm

What makes the situation even murkier is South Ossetia itself. It is a a breakaway province of Georgia- so it is both independent while also not independent. Also, Georgia has applied for NATO membership and has 2,000 soldiers in Iraq.
Russian convoy:
Image

The fighting is growing intense, and the Russian forces appear to be very close to the capital now. Full scale war imminent.
CaptainCameron
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:57 pm

Information is sketchy. Russians have bombed Georgian airfields. Fighting is intense. Mikheil Saakashvili has said a state of war exists between the two countries, though no formal declarations have been made. Martial law in Georgia.

Casualties so far, though information is sketchy at best:
Russian- 62, 12 fatalities.
South Ossetian Forces- Unknown
North Ossetian Volunteers/Abkhazian Volunteers- Unknown

Georgian- 30, unknown fatalities.

Civilians- Up to 1,400, though the number seems much to high for how long the fighting has been going on and the fact that much of SO has been evacuated.
CaptainCameron
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:46 pm

Georgia has declared war on Russia. Russian wounded surges to 150 amid reports that they have taken the South Ossetian capital.
Chap4Pub
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby Chap4Pub » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:34 am

This is a really interesting development...

The timing with the Olympics, a nice distraction, and a really big question in my mind.
Will Bush back Russia so that he has an ally to invade Iran? That worries me a bit. We, as Americans, don't need our leaders putting one more nail into the coffin...
We will see...


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CaptainCameron
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:25 pm

Considering that America just helped Georgia fly 800 of it's soldiers out of Iraq and into georgia, thereby strengthening the Georgian military, I'll hazard a 'no.' Georgia is a VERY close US ally- she had 2,000 troops in Iraq, the third largest number. Georgia was also seeking NATO membership. A geopolitical aim for Russia may be to show NATO that by accepting Georgia, they accept a tinderbox.

Russia is attacking the Georgian city of Gori. Depending on who you listen to, the Georgians either have 200 dead soldiers or 300 total dead, mostly civilians. Georgian mercenaries have been captured; nationalities vary, some say a few Americans.

Russian dead vary from 18-39, 150 wounded, 14 missing, at least 2 POWs and four aircraft lost. South Ossetia likely clumps civilian and military casualties together for a total of 1,600 dead. Abkhazian losses are unknown.

Analysis: The timing surprised no one. Russia was able to quickly sends hundreds of vehicles and tanks and thousands of troops across the border very quickly after Georgia launched her attack. It may have been a great move by Russia: By letting Georgia land the first blow in a disputed territory, they can claim in some respects that they are doing the right thing. meanwhile, the amount of force being used and the extend of the fighting shows that Russia had prepared this to their own ends, and Georgia played right into Russia's hands with the timing.
triplemultiplex
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby triplemultiplex » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:02 pm

I've been hearing that Russia has pretty much split Georgia in two as they secure Ossetia. Amazing stuff.

I find Russia's claim of protecting it's peacekeepers in the region highly dubious. Same goes for Georgia's claim that they shot down like 20 Russian aircraft. I watched Wolf Blitzer interview Georgia's president on Saturday and I heard a lot of propaganda from him, and the Russians. Both were throwing around the word 'genocide' a little too much.

I suspect the root cause underlying this conflict is, what else, oil. Pipelines that carry crude oil from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea pass through Georgia. Other pipelines exist along more northernly routes, entirely within Russia. So if Russia had some excuse to take over Georgia, a side effect would be they'd have more control over the export of oil & gas out of the Caspian Sea region.

Wasn't this the plot to one of those Ghost Recon video games? It's also similar to that one Bond movie. Strange.
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CaptainCameron
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby CaptainCameron » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:49 pm

triplemultiplex wrote:I've been hearing that Russia has pretty much split Georgia in two as they secure Ossetia. Amazing stuff.

I find Russia's claim of protecting it's peacekeepers in the region highly dubious. Same goes for Georgia's claim that they shot down like 20 Russian aircraft. I watched Wolf Blitzer interview Georgia's president on Saturday and I heard a lot of propaganda from him, and the Russians. Both were throwing around the word 'genocide' a little too much.

I suspect the root cause underlying this conflict is, what else, oil. Pipelines that carry crude oil from the Caspian Sea to the Black Sea pass through Georgia. Other pipelines exist along more northernly routes, entirely within Russia. So if Russia had some excuse to take over Georgia, a side effect would be they'd have more control over the export of oil & gas out of the Caspian Sea region.

Wasn't this the plot to one of those Ghost Recon video games? It's also similar to that one Bond movie. Strange.

Eh, if Russia's aim was oil then they would have to occupy Georgia. If they did that, then they can't claim to be the good guys. That happens, then expect intervention from the UN that would force Russia our- politically, I mean. It is more likely that Russia aims to destabilize Georgia by supporting the movements of, and possibly annexing, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. By doing that, and crushing the Georgian military, they can make sure that georgia doesn't join NATO and basically sucks Russia's tit. Once you have that happen, boom.

The Georgians have shot down four planes for sure- I expect it to be a tad higher, possibly 6-8 before all is over. To me, the most interesting article I've read was from a Russian reporter who was in an ambushed column. If that is real, then Russian casualty figures are much, much higher.

Plus, Georgia is a small country. Very small. They have cut it in half basically- not that it took but a day to do.

And yes, it was in one of the Ghost Recon games. :lol:
gtaca2005
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby gtaca2005 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:37 pm

This could get ugly....
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Pip Tweek
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby Pip Tweek » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:51 pm

CaptainCameron wrote:
And yes, it was in one of the Ghost Recon games. :lol:


I'm not familiar with Ghost Recon, but instead of all this needless fighting and killing, why don't they just play Ghost Recon against each other - and whoever wins the game wins the war! Cheat codes will have to be disabled of course.

They could at least give it a chance - I mean, come on!
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby gtaca2005 » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:08 am

This could be a war, or stand-off between the US and Russia.

(They also are trying to control the oil flow.)
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triplemultiplex
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby triplemultiplex » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:51 pm

This little war won't end until Russia accomplishes it's goal, whatever that is. No one's going to stop them. Especially the U.S. We're in no position to get involved in a third simultaneous war. Russia's too big of a country for America to kick around.

I also have to laugh at George Bush's total lack of credibility on this issue when he scolds Russia for violating the sovereignty of another country. His hypocrisy would be so much funnier if it wasn't such a sad situation. Bush & the Neo-Cons have a lot of balls to take the position they have considering what they did to Iraq.
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby Pip Tweek » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:57 pm

triplemultiplex wrote:
I also have to laugh at George Bush's total lack of credibility on this issue when he scolds Russia for violating the sovereignty of another country. His hypocrisy would be so much funnier if it wasn't such a sad situation. Bush & the Neo-Cons have a lot of balls to take the position they have considering what they did to Iraq.


Edit:

You're not supposed to think about stuff like that.
Last edited by Pip Tweek on Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Levani
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Re: Georgia-Russia(South Ossetian Conflict)

Postby Levani » Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:11 pm

I'm from georgia.right now I'm in tbilisi (capital of georgia)
I'll try to explain what really happened,also keep in mind that some of the things I say might not be true,cause I heard it on tv, and some of them will be facts,things I saw with my own eyes or heard it from my friends.
south ossetia is inside georgia,it was considered as conflicted region,since separatists took over control many years ago,when georgia was facing a lot of crisis.separatists were clearly backed by russians,but it was not clear for the world untill now.
on 7th august our president made a statement.he was asking separatists to cease fire and stop attacking civilians in south ossetian villages.he gave them 3 hours to stop and said that how painful for him it might be during this 3 hour he ordered our police not to fire back,also so called russian peacekeepers were not responding on any of this violence.
after this georgian military started attacking.they took over all the villages and finally central city cxinvali in one night.all this time there was not one single russian peacekeeper harmed.
after that suddenly russians started attacking,they used air forces (we never did) and destroyed city cxinvali so badly that there was not one building left.their excuse was,that a lot of people living in south ossetia have russian citizenship.
now imagine, during war in chechnia if americans gave all the chechnians,american citizenship illegally and use it as an excuse to start war against russians.something similar happened here.
later russians started bombing every single city in georgia.they say,they only bomb military bases but,thats not true.my friend is from gori and her house is burned.
they also bombed several places in tbilisi.military airport and they dropped bombs near international airport,destroying the road and causing panic.
russias ultimatum was for georgia to pull out all the troops from south ossetia which is done,but they wont stop attacking.
today russian president medvedev had a meeting with french president sarkozy.they came to an agreement to cease fire.but even after that meeting,russians keep bombing our citys.

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