Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

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Mr. Hat_DX27
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby Mr. Hat_DX27 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:38 am

I personally have no problem with people believing in something. I do find it annoying, however, when people blame God for all their problems. It's not God's fault that your boss is a douchebag...that's you're bosses fault for acting the way she does. Her actions are all her own, as are yours.

Life is a very interesting thing. Many good things happen as well as bad. I gotta agree with M00n over there, about how, for the most part anyway, "good" and "evil" are more of a personal perspective rather than predefined criteria written on some "sacred document". I mean, of course, there's common sense, (like how not a lot of people would think that killing somebody is bad), and then there's your own personal likes and dislikes, like if something somebody does makes you feel uncomfortable.

I seek not to prove or disprove God's existence. If he is out there somewhere, I'm sure he's having fun sitting on his big puffy cloud as the world plunges deeper into chaos. If he's not there, then...oh well.

Now, for how I define some of those terms.

Religion - Cults officially recognized by the government with tax exempt status.

God - A common scapegoat in the form of a divine entity that people often direct their problems to when they cannot accept their actions or deal with the actions of others, or any other kind of unfortunate event. I mean, come on, why would God cause something like Hurricane Katrina or Ike? God (or any other similar celestial entity or deity) can also be used to influence the thoughts and actions of others by using him/her as a grand master whom the organizations leader "carries on his message".

Heaven/Hell - Methods of controlling a populous, the former giving hope to the people, the latter instilling fear. Heaven leans towards "good" and, contrary-wise, hell leans towards the "bad" side of the spectrum. Therefore, heaven can easily be viewed more as a "utopia" than a place to go when we die, and hell is the "dystopia", the exact opposite.

I've probably strayed off topic here, so I'll stop here. :P
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allan420
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby allan420 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:51 pm

Aym_Dand wrote:If God truly did create this amazing, massive, complex, ever-changing and expanding universe, then how could our little monkey brains possibly understand any of God's intentions or interventions?

It's best not to worry about it.


I like your name because with the letters I can spell

Amy and D
.... what a happy thought

I hear what you're saying because I've felt like that.
I think I know but after I realize where I know I'm not even on the sideline. I'm not even watching the event, I am literally a non-issue. For the results of the surrounding universe, God would be foolish to care about me to him in perspective I am not even a spec of dust to what could be found. Still, it's obvious to me there is something huge out there. How can we know what that is? I never did want to know that much and immediately someone gave me my out, Christ. What I mean is yea you dont see God he doesnt show himself herself itself its never been a worry for me, however, about God, it's more, people and yea I think that's one of the first things that led me to Gene Roddenberry. lol Im a trek nerd... lol

Just_Jackie wrote:
Pip Tweek wrote:2.) The ways of God are unknowable.


free will


Free Will ...

I once heard a Satanist say that could be God's mistake


Pip Tweek wrote:
Aym_Dand wrote:Or just do your job half-assed like the rest of us.



don't bother applying morality to the business world - it doesn't exist.


I noticed that of course
I am glad we agree... can we come to terms? lol :D
thanks for the response

Quintuplets_Father wrote:think about a chess game.. are there any good moral values?


I enjoy reading and thinking game theory ...

During a long discussion my friend Brice said to me he thought perhaps a big key to game theory is emotions. Being a nerd I immediately start thinking Vulcan and logic yet after I think how people use this in manipulations and how this can actually define evil.

bumpa wrote:well god is timeless so maybe think about it like deeds balance over eternity..


Could I get that in a mathmatical equation?

gtaca2005 wrote:I'm an Agnostic Atheist, so.........

I don't believe.....


not trying to lace a question no umm just wondering if u think mostly like I do that it isnt really God it's people and.. Circumstances? Dumb decisions? What do you think causes Evil?

M00ndragon69 wrote:I believe that people do have free will, and good or bad things happen as a result of how people choose to exercise their free will. I do believe in Karma, even though, yes bad things happen to "good people" and good things happen to "bad" people.

Are you talking about people who have killed other people or done serious harm to other people, or just people you personally do not like?

There is no easy answer to your question. Whether good things happen to bad people or bad things happen to good people more than the opposite is all in how one percieves things. The truth is everyone has bad sh*t happen in their lives to some degree, and everyone has things in their lives that are blessings. It is all in how you precieve things, if you choose to focus on the good or bad in your life.


I really agree with you, especially with what was quoted. Karma... You know it's really not my question it's South Park's question from cartmanland commentary.

Truth is big :D

Sure enough.. I wonder sometimes though if still we're under a microscope anyway, in some way if you understand what I am trying to say... sometimes I don't feel it's spiritual but then other times I do feel that way so who can say.

Mr. Hat_DX27 wrote:I mean, come on, why would God cause something like Hurricane Katrina or Ike? God (or any other similar celestial entity or deity) can also be used to influence the thoughts and actions of others by using him/her as a grand master whom the organizations leader "carries on his message".

Heaven/Hell - Methods of controlling a populous, the former giving hope to the people, the latter instilling fear. Heaven leans towards "good" and, contrary-wise, hell leans towards the "bad" side of the spectrum. Therefore, heaven can easily be viewed more as a "utopia" than a place to go when we die, and hell is the "dystopia", the exact opposite.

I've probably strayed off topic here, so I'll stop here


So my friend the other day blew his own brains out, I mean, where was God there? Everyone knew Joe was depressed and something pushed him over the edge... I'm not sure what.. I left that shithole town years ago when I moved to Hawaii... only to find Hawaii is awesome but the people are shitheads.... Another story for another time, But yes...

Katrina.. I know this is going to sound .. ridiculous
I went to Mardi Gras ... and the Christians there warned me the place was evil and to leave.. :D I said I was thinking of moving here and he insisted, no, do not.

Messengers are important.. Was this just a pack of looney Christians or ? to say it was a very strange Mardi Gras.. I mean people knew my name and I never met them before.. stuff like that

You use some of my favorite words, Method, define, ... I curtail

to say I am evil at time is true.. at times I wish bad.. very bad on people.. and at times I guess I notice what I wish .. happens
dont ask my why and sure that might sound radical
I cant dispute fact .. I know there is God .. I know they say you cannot defeat him... ah that's all good fun but yes I am a true believer.. a lot of faith.. and I believe whatever God left for us in result can return us here again just by a different means then what I think people consider


----------------
... I formed The Empire in World of Warcraft and have a 70 Warlock ... and I played a high level Cleric in EverQuest .. named Curtail Method... I think I know when I've gone on about something a b it too long :D Thank you for everyone responding... I didn't think this thread would get a reply.. c-ya :shock:
Quintuplets_Father
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby Quintuplets_Father » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:30 pm

allan420 wrote: (...) What do you think causes Evil?


The chase for finding truth is about asking the right questions...

To be able to ask the right qestions is not easy, u have to find a way to open your mind while not being influenced by other people way of thinking.. but u dont have to achieve this by totally avoiding what others had to say before u; infact u should try to see what everyone has to say, keeping a critical view over things.. but since u dont have a perfect tool from the very beginning for doing this, u also have to keep a critical eye on yourself aswell.. ..the only problem is that u should be lucky enough to be raised as a child (and even later in life) in a way that doesnt kill your mind.

My proposal for a better question (not a substitute) is: what IS Evil?
and btw: i broke the dam...
Pip Tweek
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby Pip Tweek » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:54 pm

I'd say evil is intentionally causing harm or suffering to another person when it can be avoided. Everything else is circumstance.
gtaca2005
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:13 pm

Evil is subjective. It is that which is against ones personal thoughts and ethical values. The reason there is more or less basic evil, like homicide and thievery is because the "morals" of a good society have been instilled into human behavior through evolution. Those who are more social and helpful to society have higher chances of passing on genes, and so through natural selection, the more sociable beings are selected, and they had primitive morality. Throughout the years, as society grew, morality grew into what it is today, which is best for society.

Morality is NOT in the bible. Christians say you need a God to have morality, but lets look at the bible. How many times does God kill for stupid reasons? Why does he say it is okay to stone your son or daughter to death for being unfaithful? This is clear evidence that we "pick and choose" the morals from the bible. So our morality is better than that of "God"... We MADE God before we realized what is good for society. The laws in Hammurabi's Code can be found in the bible, which predates the bible, by the way...
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Kelly MacCornmac
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:55 pm

Assuming Evil and God exists (evil being killing someone)... If a person has so much power and stuff, why does he not introvene when an infant is burning on fire in a building? If he was good, he would have saved the baby, but he does not. Therefore, god is eather evil, good and evil mixture, or does not exist.


If you had all the power and knowledge and created a world, but had to have one child die slowly, would you be happy?


And as for Karma, there is no such thing as balance. *gets out Phil. book* "A child plays with a dog with a stone. The owner, seeing that his favorite dog is lame, orders to find the person who did it. The child was found and put in the cell. The next morning the child was stripped naked as the dog boys cheered on the child to run. They let go of the child and as he runs he is mauled by the dogs, in front of his mother. " The child may forgive the attacker, but the mother has no right to forgive him. This would be unbalanced, but I don't blame her.


//Philosphy lessons....I just read this a few days ago too. Also, the story is a true story, so don't put it off as false. The guy in the section collected Russian news papers. However, I shortened it a bit
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triplemultiplex
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby triplemultiplex » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:00 pm

The question of "why does God let bad things happen to good people" is difficult to answer in the context of religion. Because anyone who does invariable goes off on some cock and bull story about how it's all part of "God's plan" or something like that. Religion assumes there must be a God and must try and answer without precluding God's existence or making God sound "bad".

If we step outside of religion, then we have a much broader pallet to consider.
The simplest explanation is often the correct one, so the most logical answer is there is no god controlling the lives of humans and the stuff that happens to us is a result of the decisions we and others make. Throw in the natural processes of weather and geology and we have a pretty good model for why sh*t happens to people.

I find the world makes a hell of a lot more sense if you don't assume someone's controlling everything.
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cartman04
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby cartman04 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:44 am

Im a athiest but im just going to write something to conform to religion
1. god is an as*hole
2. your job sucks ass
3. you're not a good enough worker
there you go, nice, short and simple
Iam so super cereal.
cartman04
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby cartman04 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:47 am

allan420 wrote:
Aym_Dand wrote:If God truly did create this amazing, massive, complex, ever-changing and expanding universe, then how could our little monkey brains possibly understand any of God's intentions or interventions?

It's best not to worry about it.


I like your name because with the letters I can spell

Amy and D
.... what a happy thought

I hear what you're saying because I've felt like that.
I think I know but after I realize where I know I'm not even on the sideline. I'm not even watching the event, I am literally a non-issue. For the results of the surrounding universe, God would be foolish to care about me to him in perspective I am not even a spec of dust to what could be found. Still, it's obvious to me there is something huge out there. How can we know what that is? I never did want to know that much and immediately someone gave me my out, Christ. What I mean is yea you dont see God he doesnt show himself herself itself its never been a worry for me, however, about God, it's more, people and yea I think that's one of the first things that led me to Gene Roddenberry. lol Im a trek nerd... lol

Just_Jackie wrote:
Pip Tweek wrote:2.) The ways of God are unknowable.


free will


Free Will ...

I once heard a Satanist say that could be God's mistake


Pip Tweek wrote:
Aym_Dand wrote:Or just do your job half-assed like the rest of us.



don't bother applying morality to the business world - it doesn't exist.


I noticed that of course
I am glad we agree... can we come to terms? lol :D
thanks for the response

Quintuplets_Father wrote:think about a chess game.. are there any good moral values?


I enjoy reading and thinking game theory ...

During a long discussion my friend Brice said to me he thought perhaps a big key to game theory is emotions. Being a nerd I immediately start thinking Vulcan and logic yet after I think how people use this in manipulations and how this can actually define evil.

bumpa wrote:well god is timeless so maybe think about it like deeds balance over eternity..


Could I get that in a mathmatical equation?

gtaca2005 wrote:I'm an Agnostic Atheist, so.........

I don't believe.....


not trying to lace a question no umm just wondering if u think mostly like I do that it isnt really God it's people and.. Circumstances? Dumb decisions? What do you think causes Evil?

M00ndragon69 wrote:I believe that people do have free will, and good or bad things happen as a result of how people choose to exercise their free will. I do believe in Karma, even though, yes bad things happen to "good people" and good things happen to "bad" people.

Are you talking about people who have killed other people or done serious harm to other people, or just people you personally do not like?

There is no easy answer to your question. Whether good things happen to bad people or bad things happen to good people more than the opposite is all in how one percieves things. The truth is everyone has bad sh*t happen in their lives to some degree, and everyone has things in their lives that are blessings. It is all in how you precieve things, if you choose to focus on the good or bad in your life.


I really agree with you, especially with what was quoted. Karma... You know it's really not my question it's South Park's question from cartmanland commentary.

Truth is big :D

Sure enough.. I wonder sometimes though if still we're under a microscope anyway, in some way if you understand what I am trying to say... sometimes I don't feel it's spiritual but then other times I do feel that way so who can say.

Mr. Hat_DX27 wrote:I mean, come on, why would God cause something like Hurricane Katrina or Ike? God (or any other similar celestial entity or deity) can also be used to influence the thoughts and actions of others by using him/her as a grand master whom the organizations leader "carries on his message".

Heaven/Hell - Methods of controlling a populous, the former giving hope to the people, the latter instilling fear. Heaven leans towards "good" and, contrary-wise, hell leans towards the "bad" side of the spectrum. Therefore, heaven can easily be viewed more as a "utopia" than a place to go when we die, and hell is the "dystopia", the exact opposite.

I've probably strayed off topic here, so I'll stop here


So my friend the other day blew his own brains out, I mean, where was God there? Everyone knew Joe was depressed and something pushed him over the edge... I'm not sure what.. I left that shithole town years ago when I moved to Hawaii... only to find Hawaii is awesome but the people are shitheads.... Another story for another time, But yes...

Katrina.. I know this is going to sound .. ridiculous
I went to Mardi Gras ... and the Christians there warned me the place was evil and to leave.. :D I said I was thinking of moving here and he insisted, no, do not.

Messengers are important.. Was this just a pack of looney Christians or ? to say it was a very strange Mardi Gras.. I mean people knew my name and I never met them before.. stuff like that

You use some of my favorite words, Method, define, ... I curtail

to say I am evil at time is true.. at times I wish bad.. very bad on people.. and at times I guess I notice what I wish .. happens
dont ask my why and sure that might sound radical
I cant dispute fact .. I know there is God .. I know they say you cannot defeat him... ah that's all good fun but yes I am a true believer.. a lot of faith.. and I believe whatever God left for us in result can return us here again just by a different means then what I think people consider


----------------
... I formed The Empire in World of Warcraft and have a 70 Warlock ... and I played a high level Cleric in EverQuest .. named Curtail Method... I think I know when I've gone on about something a b it too long :D Thank you for everyone responding... I didn't think this thread would get a reply.. c-ya :shock:


do you think you wrote enough?
M00ndragon69
Posts: 9593
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:53 am

allan420 wrote:
Aym_Dand wrote:If God truly did create this amazing, massive, complex, ever-changing and expanding universe, then how could our little monkey brains possibly understand any of God's intentions or interventions?

It's best not to worry about it.


I like your name because with the letters I can spell

Amy and D
.... what a happy thought

I hear what you're saying because I've felt like that.
I think I know but after I realize where I know I'm not even on the sideline. I'm not even watching the event, I am literally a non-issue. For the results of the surrounding universe, God would be foolish to care about me to him in perspective I am not even a spec of dust to what could be found. Still, it's obvious to me there is something huge out there. How can we know what that is? I never did want to know that much and immediately someone gave me my out, Christ. What I mean is yea you dont see God he doesnt show himself herself itself its never been a worry for me, however, about God, it's more, people and yea I think that's one of the first things that led me to Gene Roddenberry. lol Im a trek nerd... lol

Just_Jackie wrote:
Pip Tweek wrote:2.) The ways of God are unknowable.


free will


Free Will ...

I once heard a Satanist say that could be God's mistake


Pip Tweek wrote:
Aym_Dand wrote:Or just do your job half-assed like the rest of us.



don't bother applying morality to the business world - it doesn't exist.


I noticed that of course
I am glad we agree... can we come to terms? lol :D
thanks for the response

Quintuplets_Father wrote:think about a chess game.. are there any good moral values?


I enjoy reading and thinking game theory ...

During a long discussion my friend Brice said to me he thought perhaps a big key to game theory is emotions. Being a nerd I immediately start thinking Vulcan and logic yet after I think how people use this in manipulations and how this can actually define evil.

bumpa wrote:well god is timeless so maybe think about it like deeds balance over eternity..


Could I get that in a mathmatical equation?

gtaca2005 wrote:I'm an Agnostic Atheist, so.........

I don't believe.....


not trying to lace a question no umm just wondering if u think mostly like I do that it isnt really God it's people and.. Circumstances? Dumb decisions? What do you think causes Evil?

M00ndragon69 wrote:I believe that people do have free will, and good or bad things happen as a result of how people choose to exercise their free will. I do believe in Karma, even though, yes bad things happen to "good people" and good things happen to "bad" people.

Are you talking about people who have killed other people or done serious harm to other people, or just people you personally do not like?

There is no easy answer to your question. Whether good things happen to bad people or bad things happen to good people more than the opposite is all in how one percieves things. The truth is everyone has bad sh*t happen in their lives to some degree, and everyone has things in their lives that are blessings. It is all in how you precieve things, if you choose to focus on the good or bad in your life.


I really agree with you, especially with what was quoted. Karma... You know it's really not my question it's South Park's question from cartmanland commentary.

Truth is big :D

Sure enough.. I wonder sometimes though if still we're under a microscope anyway, in some way if you understand what I am trying to say... sometimes I don't feel it's spiritual but then other times I do feel that way so who can say.

Mr. Hat_DX27 wrote:I mean, come on, why would God cause something like Hurricane Katrina or Ike? God (or any other similar celestial entity or deity) can also be used to influence the thoughts and actions of others by using him/her as a grand master whom the organizations leader "carries on his message".

Heaven/Hell - Methods of controlling a populous, the former giving hope to the people, the latter instilling fear. Heaven leans towards "good" and, contrary-wise, hell leans towards the "bad" side of the spectrum. Therefore, heaven can easily be viewed more as a "utopia" than a place to go when we die, and hell is the "dystopia", the exact opposite.

I've probably strayed off topic here, so I'll stop here


So my friend the other day blew his own brains out, I mean, where was God there? Everyone knew Joe was depressed and something pushed him over the edge... I'm not sure what.. I left that shithole town years ago when I moved to Hawaii... only to find Hawaii is awesome but the people are shitheads.... Another story for another time, But yes...

Katrina.. I know this is going to sound .. ridiculous
I went to Mardi Gras ... and the Christians there warned me the place was evil and to leave.. :D I said I was thinking of moving here and he insisted, no, do not.

Messengers are important.. Was this just a pack of looney Christians or ? to say it was a very strange Mardi Gras.. I mean people knew my name and I never met them before.. stuff like that

You use some of my favorite words, Method, define, ... I curtail

to say I am evil at time is true.. at times I wish bad.. very bad on people.. and at times I guess I notice what I wish .. happens
dont ask my why and sure that might sound radical
I cant dispute fact .. I know there is God .. I know they say you cannot defeat him... ah that's all good fun but yes I am a true believer.. a lot of faith.. and I believe whatever God left for us in result can return us here again just by a different means then what I think people consider


----------------
... I formed The Empire in World of Warcraft and have a 70 Warlock ... and I played a high level Cleric in EverQuest .. named Curtail Method... I think I know when I've gone on about something a b it too long :D Thank you for everyone responding... I didn't think this thread would get a reply.. c-ya :shock:


Interesting story about Mardi Gras. Reminds me of stuff one of my best friends tells me has happened to him. I have known him almost 10 years, he is probably the main person I talk to about witchcraft and such, because not only is he pretty open minded, he has had some very wierd experiences like what you described. And no he isn't saying those things to get attention, most people don't believe him, and those things that have happened seriously creep him out. Too many really wierd concidences.
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ShaneHaughey
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby ShaneHaughey » Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:43 am

I'll go get some tea.
That's how it's down here on the farm!
jewish pride
Posts: 1534
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby jewish pride » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:37 pm

Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

well my modest opinion is that god will always benefit you in the end if you were a good person during your life and put up with a lot of crap but still came out a good person, the compesation will come eventually, you just have to be patient and keep the faith

and also i dont think its that bad to have bad things happen to you every now and then, pain makes you grow, become a better person and mature, i think its really important to have that kind of pain

people like cartman who have been given so much right into their hands, that rarely have to do any effort in life and dont suffer that much the consequences of their actions, will never become better people and will grow up into a totally lame person

kyle has had to suffer a couple of times, but i get the feeling that he is really growing into a great guy, that knows hard work and that pretty much always chooses the 'right' path, which is way better than the future i predict for cartman

and its pretty much also the speech butters made at the end of raisins, that pain is just a part of life and it just makes you more human, you dont have to resent it and go like 'oh the world is so mean and unfair', but rather learn from it and learn to appreciate the good times better

so yeah, thats my gay little speech, should have added a 'you know, i learned something today at the beginning' huh? :P
cartman04
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Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby cartman04 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:02 pm

jewish pride wrote:people like cartman who have been given so much right into their hands, that rarely have to do any effort in life and dont suffer that much the consequences of their actions, will never become better people and will grow up into a totally lame person


dont ever diss cartman :cartmansopissedrightnow:
cartman04
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:19 pm

Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby cartman04 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:06 pm

ShaneHaughey wrote:I'll go get some tea.


whats the occasion?
jewish pride
Posts: 1534
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:11 am

Re: Why would God treat good people badly and bad people goodly?

Postby jewish pride » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:16 pm

cartman04 wrote:
jewish pride wrote:people like cartman who have been given so much right into their hands, that rarely have to do any effort in life and dont suffer that much the consequences of their actions, will never become better people and will grow up into a totally lame person


dont ever diss cartman :cartmansopissedrightnow:

i speak nothing but the truth my friend :P

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