Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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triplemultiplex
Posts: 6113
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:24 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby triplemultiplex » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:08 pm

BigCamera4892 wrote:Thanks, TripleMultiplex. I understand now (re: your sig)

We're cool :D


Word.

I altered a quote from the Futurama episode "Anthology of Interest II" which had voice actor Maurice LaMarche saying the following line between two of the acts: "You watched it; you can't un-watch it!
__________________________________________________

You read it! You can't unread it!
gtaca2005
Posts: 3915
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:36 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby gtaca2005 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:12 pm

This is my opinion.

Religion started as a means of controlling the public and is mostly based on the monetary system, the system of money. If you look at the commandments, you'll notice that they resemble laws of the time of the bibles' age. Some may say that "God" was just that smart, but if you look throughout the book, there are MANY outdated and primitive rules that fly in the face of our current understanding of justice.

It justifies slavery and says that you can stone your wife.

Not to mention that in Genesis, it states that the male is the master of the female. This is just horrible.
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
kfgg
Posts: 3100
Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 12:12 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby kfgg » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:31 pm

Genesis is part of "The Law Of Moses" as is all of the Old Testiment.

When Jesus came (The New Testiment), "The Law" became void which is one of the reasons why many bibles leave the Old Testiment out.

The Jewish however, still have many of the books that are in the Old Testiment as part of the Torah for obvious reasons.
Stan and Kyle :)
gtaca2005
Posts: 3915
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:36 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby gtaca2005 » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:46 pm

kfgg wrote:Genesis is part of "The Law Of Moses" as is all of the Old Testiment.

When Jesus came (The New Testiment), "The Law" became void which is one of the reasons why many bibles leave the Old Testiment out.

The Jewish however, still have many of the books that are in the Old Testiment as part of the Torah for obvious reasons.

But why would a loving God have those rules to begin with? And, if you say that the old rules didn't make sense, are you not admitting that the infallible God made a mistake? Or do you go along the line of saying that the old testament was wrong? Either why you a screwed. On one hand, God contradicted himself. One the other hand, the Old Testament is wrong and that means that the criteria for Jesus is questionable, if not completely wrong. Add that to the fact that his "miracles" aren't documented by ANY reliable HISTORIAN of that time period, and there are many.

Then Rome adopts Christianity and use it as a reason to invade other countries. :roll:

Then the Crusades, and then the Inquisition...



Religion with dogmatic beliefs is just wrong. I don't spend my time going after religions that aren't bound by rules like Christianity. Although I disagree with those religions (Moondragon, you're a polytheist, right?), they don't intrude into my life as the big two do.
(Christianity and Islam.)
Judaism is quite quite and they don't push their beliefs into the public and they don't have a sense of feeling special with extra rights in a "Christian nation".

(Bill O' Reilly just went nuts over an Atheist sign next to a Christmas nativity scene in Washington State. He says it's a federal holiday to celebrate Jesus, and the Atheists have no right to put their sign up next their display. But by saying this, he fails to realize that because of the separation of church and state that this holiday is now secular in public places.)
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
BigCamera4892

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby BigCamera4892 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:35 am

kfgg wrote:Genesis is part of "The Law Of Moses" as is all of the Old Testiment.

When Jesus came (The New Testiment), "The Law" became void which is one of the reasons why many bibles leave the Old Testiment out.

The Jewish however, still have many of the books that are in the Old Testiment as part of the Torah for obvious reasons.


Actually, as Jews, we don't have an "Old Testament" We have the TANACH, which is an acronym in Hebrew for The Torah, The Profits, and The Writings, all of which the Christain world calls the "Old" testament.

Jesus was Jewish, by the way, and followed the rules of this "Old Testament," including the dietary laws. "When Jesus came, "the Law" became void . . . ." not true. Jesus followed those "Laws"

Let's take one of your "void" laws: "Thou shalt not commit murder." Does this mean that you advocate murder, as murder is one of these voided laws?
Last edited by BigCamera4892 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Schliby
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Schliby » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:36 am

As a Jew, I believe that the Torah specifically says to avoid magic, the occult, ghosts, spirits, etc. You say "There is a thing called High Magick, and it is involved in the Christian/Catholic/Jewish faith. Sorry, Schliby, NOT the Jewish faith.


Actually, it was the Hebrew people who started magick, for instance, "The Six and Seventh Book of Moses" was an ancient book was given to moses from god and eventually to King Solomon. How do you think Moses performed all of his miracles?
Also, in high magick, the lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram is performed daily. In that ritual, you speak the ancient names of god, in hebrew, which in ancient times, were used by the Hebrews to meditate on.
If it weren't for the Hebrews alive during the time of ancient Egypt, there would be no high magic. Magick was not outlawed in that time. Besides, the bible has been altered so many times, it barely resembles the original one written in Hebrew.
I am not trying to be mean, correct you, or be a smart ass, but during ancient Egyptian times, the Hebrews practiced magick, it is frowned upon nowadays, but at one point, they practiced it. King Solomon even practiced it and wrote books on it called "The Lesser Key of Solomon".

In a way, High Magick is completely based on the Jewish Faith
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
BigCamera4892

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby BigCamera4892 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:40 am

Schliby wrote:
As a Jew, I believe that the Torah specifically says to avoid magic, the occult, ghosts, spirits, etc. You say "There is a thing called High Magick, and it is involved in the Christian/Catholic/Jewish faith. Sorry, Schliby, NOT the Jewish faith.


Actually, it was the Hebrew people who started magick, for instance, "The Six and Seventh Book of Moses" was an ancient book was given to moses from god and eventually to King Solomon. How do you think Moses performed all of his miracles?


G'd performed the miracles, not Moses.

Schliby wrote:In a way, High Magick is completely based on the Jewish Faith


Not really. Non-observant jews perhaps, but not the mainstream. That's why these threads are great -- it opens up discussions. Thanks, Schliby.
Schliby
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Schliby » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:42 am

Parting the red sea is what i meant by miracle...
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
BigCamera4892

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby BigCamera4892 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:46 am

Schliby wrote:Parting the red sea is what i meant by miracle...


Right! And G'd did this, NOT Moses.

G'd also performed 10 miracles in Egypt before the Israelites left Pharoh. And G'd performed many more miracles during the next 40 years the Israelites wandered in the desert. And G'd continued with Joshua into the land of Caanan. And so it goes . . . . . . . . .
Quintuplets_Father
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:05 pm

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Quintuplets_Father » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:48 am

Later Edit:
At this point the thread was pretty much hijacked/flooded "off-topically", i moved my post.. not because of a desperate need for attention, but because i would like to get some interesting feedback... especially now that the thread title was changed .

Thanks for understanding Big-Will.
Last edited by Quintuplets_Father on Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
and btw: i broke the dam...
Kelly MacCornmac
Posts: 6142
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:05 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:52 am

Please, do not take what I'm about to say to the offensive, I just want to start some discussion and stuff...you know philosophy crap.

kfgg wrote:And a lot of miracles have happened over this past year alone to us that really state the obvious for me anyway.

But alas, what is a miracle?

kfgg wrote:The obvious:

1. God is real.
2. God is love.
3. God forgives.
4. God loves everybody.
5. Prayer is essential

1: I do not know why you find this so obvious, why is it obvious to you? I am curious....
2: god is love or god can love? also, what is this "love" we are talking about?
3: Yes, I'm sure he forgives Hitler for slaying Jews (sorry, sorry)
4: But what is love? If he loves everybody, wouldn't everybody go to heaven?
5: No, not really. It may make you feel like you are doing something, but in actuallity you are not.


I am asking you to simply give it a try. Pray. Ask God to come into your life maybe. Its simple. Skip over that for not and just talk to God.

Yea....I tried that when I was 12, and there was no difference once so ever. This is probally one of the few reasons I don't belive in him.

Not everything, just "certain songs"

God, I hate Christian music...(ironic, no?)



Uh...anyways, why would a loving God would allow his son to heal a slave, but yet does not force Jesus to allow the slave to be free?
Causing havoc on the BBS one post at a time

Officially supports the de-perma of GTA, Mike, Cartman, and possibly others


SPU! Join it!
Schliby
Posts: 769
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Schliby » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:01 am

The Torah is the first five books of Moses, when Moses was given the Torah, or the first five books of Moses, he received a second set of books called the sixth and seventh books of Moses. These books explained magick and were used by many ancient hebrews, and King Solomon, who also practiced magick. It is frowned upon in all of the religions that worship god, even though it was used by the ancient hebrews since the time the torah was given to Moses. I agree that nowadays, practing magic, black or white, is considered wrong. But i am simply adding the fact that it was used by the ancient Hebrews.
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
gtaca2005
Posts: 3915
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:36 am

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby gtaca2005 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:07 am

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:
Uh...anyways, why would a loving God would allow his son to heal a slave, but yet does not force Jesus to allow the slave to be free?

And to my female peeps, you should know this of your "good book":


Genesis 3:16
Bible in Basic English wrote:To the woman he said, Great will be your pain in childbirth; in sorrow will your children come to birth; still your desire will be for your husband, but he will be your master.
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
BigCamera4892

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby BigCamera4892 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:09 am

Schliby wrote:The Torah is the first five books of Moses, when Moses was given the Torah, or the first five books of Moses, he received a second set of books called the sixth and seventh books of Moses. These books explained magick and were used by many ancient hebrews, and King Solomon, who also practiced magick. It is frowned upon in all of the religions that worship god, even though it was used by the ancient hebrews since the time the torah was given to Moses. I agree that nowadays, practing magic, black or white, is considered wrong. But i am simply adding the fact that it was used by the ancient Hebrews.


Here are the books of the Tanach: There is NO 6th or 7th book of Moses:

Torah

1. Genesis
2. Exodus
3. Leviticus
4. Numbers
5. Deuteronomy

Nevi'im
Nevi'im ("Prophets") consists of eight books.
6. Joshua
7. Judges
8. Samuel
9. Kings (I & II)
10. Isaiah
11. Jeremiah
12. Ezekiel
13. The Twelve Minor Prophets
a. Hosea
b. Joel
c. Amos
d. Obadiah
e. Jonah
f. Micah
g. Nahum
h. Habakkuk
i. Zephaniah
j. Haggai
k. Zechariah
l. Malachi

Ketuvim , "Writings":
14. Psalms
15. Proverbs
16. Job

The "Five Megilot" or "Five Scrolls":
17. Song of Songs
18. Ruth
19. Lamentations
20. Ecclesiastes
21. Esther

The rest of the "Writings":
22. Daniel
23. Ezra-Nehemiah
24. Chronicles (I & II)
Schliby
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Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:48 pm

Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Schliby » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:32 am

Quotes about the Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses

These two Books were revealed by God, the Almighty, to his faithful servant Moses, on
Mount Sinai, intervale lucis, and in this manner they also came into the hands of
Aaron, Caleb, Joshua, and finally to David and his son Solomon and their high priest
Sadock. Therefore, they are Bible's arcanum arcanorum, which means, Mystery of all
Mysteries.


These two grimoires (originating from the same book) are often cited as being used by Vodun/Obeah practitioners. Although they claim to be Kabbalistic in nature, there is very little if any actual Kabbalah to be found in them. Rather this appears to be a traditional ritual magick system with incantations to summon and dismiss spirits to achieve worldly ends. Published in 1849, and translated into English in 1880, the 6th and 7th Books of Moses claim to include material from 1338, 1383 and 1501, including portions reputedly translated from the "Cuthan-Samaritan" language, which has been extinct since the 12th Century A.D., and about which very little is known. The most interesting aspects of this book are the unique illustrations of magickal seals, with letters in Hebrew and an unknown script; and the lists of names of demonic entities.
Note: the first five books of Moses are the traditionally the first five books of the Bible.


This is perhaps one of the most important books to have in your personal home library for reference. This book is about Moses' magickal art and taken directly from original sources. This is the major key to the magickal texts. The incantations, spells, evocations, invocations, and related workings are precise, and accurate.

The book is priceless to own, and for its price, well-worth any investment in other such current books claiming greater charms and miracles!. Any reader, or modern magickian, or scholar, will discover many, many, many secrets in this book.

For instance, the correct reading of the Psalm 145, Bible, with additional reading alongside Psalm 144 will drive away and remove all ghosts, apparitions, and spirits immediately. Another interesting Psalm for relieving personal fears is Psalm 141. This book covers the innate magick found in Psalms from the Bible, among many other aspects of formulas and spells from numerous other sources.
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"

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