Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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SouthParks#1Fan
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Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby SouthParks#1Fan » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:39 am

I was suspended 12 times last year. Now you bring up my past to insult me? that's sad. And i didnt attack missy, Missy was being a bitch (such as yourself) by asking one of the most stupidest questions ever at a time like that. Think mother f*cker.Look back on what the f*ck was said. And dont bring up other threads in others. Take this sh*t to that thread,.
Solitude and Sin, Calm my nerves with Gin. Sleep, wake up and do it all again.
M00ndragon69
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby M00ndragon69 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:55 am

ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...

Oh yeah, the title of this thread says we are now suppost to stay on topic and only argue on pms.Um..Ok, as I said, who knows about the drama here in Washington State with the athiest sign at the state capital? What do you think about it?
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gtaca2005
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby gtaca2005 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:00 am

I heard about it, and I am inclined to support the Atheists' rights and the Christians' rights, but the person that did it is the person I'm angry with.

And the Atheist should have left it at "there is no God", but instead they got stupid and insulted all religions by saying it poisons minds. Did they expect something NOT to happen?
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
M00ndragon69
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby M00ndragon69 » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:09 am

gtaca2005 wrote:I heard about it, and I am inclined to support the Atheists' rights and the Christians' rights, but the person that did it is the person I'm angry with.

And the Atheist should have left it at "there is no God", but instead they got stupid and insulted all religions by saying it poisons minds. Did they expect something NOT to happen?


Yeah exactly.If they had to have a sign, they could have been smart and left out the insulting people and their beliefs, and just put in something about wanting people to stop resulting to violence over religious differences and such. If you are going to have an issue with religion that should be it, the violence that has and still occurs because of religion,not that someone believes something that can't be proven with science.

The way the sign was worded was going to start sh*t. The person who created it would have had to be an idiot to expect anything else.
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Frosty_D
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Frosty_D » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:30 am

yea, or it was a person that was actually going to try to have the sign get taken down so that people would fell bad for Atheists.

And they had only two points of the religious section, why not the Hewbrew and others? Is it so that they can say Christmas is a national holiday? Is it so that us Atheists don't fell left out? Or is it the case that they want to show that Christmas has nothing to do with God and keep it as a holiday?
Hello You
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Hello You » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:08 am

Whilst I don't believe in god, I understand that the world would probably be a much more f*cked up place without religion. Religion acted as part of the government in olden times and without it there may have been chaos. Plus, religion is basically all about morality and everyone has morals... right?
Frosty_D
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Frosty_D » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:11 am

Actualty, religion has caused more chaos than it prevented...but as of now, I'm not going into details....
Hello You
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Hello You » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:18 am

Was it religion that caused chaos or the egomaniacs who use it? There are plenty of non-religious dickheads throughout history who have caused just as much havoc. Some people use religion to justify their reasons or whatever but really, anyone who can kill anyone because of a book is just f*cked in the head, regardless of what book it is.
Frosty_D
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Frosty_D » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:26 am

Agreed, but normally it's religion. Actually...most of it is religion.

Do you know that about half of preachers molest children?
Hello You
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Hello You » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:31 am

Do they?
Quintuplets_Father
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Quintuplets_Father » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:41 am

The title of the thread was "Atheism, God, and You" ... (please keep it philosophical).


I just can't be a religious man, am not an atheist, i am not an fully agonistic eiher.. i am a soul wondering appearently pointless guided only by the blind hope it will all turn well in the end... during my random journey i try to make the choices that will allow me to look behind without regrets, i don't blieve in destiny but i see how i am a tool of bigger works. I don't mix religions with churches, nor with what i call spirituality.

Maybe it's not the case, but some of you might remember university years, before an exam, few colleagues gathering around for a last unclear issues solving session: many times the disputes, explanations were not coherent enough, sometimes almost angry, but in the end it was all making sense and it was all so simple to understand afterwards. but still not always simple in matters of complexity...

it's just an example, same rules that apply at small scale can be and they are found on bigger scale too.

my point is that, in order to understand stuff, you have to break things apart analyze them, merge them back together. sometimes you have to rely on some abstractizations.. sometimes you can find various ways to approach an issue and sometimes you just can't find the truth...

All religions oriented on controlling masses first of all they define the questions to the answers they offer..
The model of the world as described by such religions is only a response to the demand of the human ego, "i need an answer and i need it now".. because living without the answers is scary...

The key in the quest for finding the truth is asking the right questions...

We can only understand what we can make representations of. All the "misteries" (notice the ") of the Universe are not coded/embedded in our brains in order to let us have the absolute comprehension waiting to be triggered... (but if it is, how that happened? and don't give me evolutionist crapp, it doesnt work that way.. did some one put it there? .. and don't give me creationist crapp... my conclusion: it's not there in the first place). life is amazing but not that amazing.. look into a mirror, you will see The Universe looking at itself .. unable to recognise itself * (see the note)..

"no one single answer is ever the answer."

to be continued maybe...


*) even though i got this idea for some time, i've found it at some thinkers that had the advantage to be born before me :) : John Wheeler and Terence McKenna.

PS: @Big-Will, i moved my post here, please see my explanation on page 2, thanks.
and btw: i broke the dam...
Schliby
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Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby Schliby » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:43 am

Hey, great to meet you, I am pagan. I have been practicing magick since I was 18.


Wow, i didn't expect to meet a pagan, let alone someone who practices magick, i've seen you on the boards before, but i never really met you... Hei!

I need to figure out which way is north, and which way is east, and south, and west... but i can't find a compass...
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
zzyzx
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Re: Atheism, God, and You.

Postby zzyzx » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:36 pm

Schliby wrote:
I need to figure out which way is north, and which way is east, and south, and west... but i can't find a compass...


This is easy:

Daytime: The sun rises in the EAST, so face the sun, and you have EAST. Behind you is WEST. To your left is NORTH, and to your right is SOUTH.

In the Afternoon, the SUN sets in the WEST, behind you is EAST, to your right is NORTH, and to the left is SOUTH

Nighttime: Look for the NORTH STAR in URSA MINOR (The little dipper). That is NORTH. Behind you is SOUTH. The constellations are in the SOUTH. To your right is EAST, to your left is WEST.

Or, using the moon, moonrise is in the EAST. Behind you is West. To your left is NORTH, to your right is SOUTH.

Moonset is in the WEST. Behind you is EAST, to your left is SOUTH, and to your right is NORTH.

Hope this helps
superiorsavior
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby superiorsavior » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:54 pm

Good idea keeping debates to PM messages, good way to pre-empatively quench the flames that visit any religion form.

When I read arguments that people should follow relgion or believe in God because irriligion and athiesm cannot account for some feature or other (be it objective morality, the laws of logic, free will, purpose, meaning, order, complexity), I automatically wonder exactly how it is that it is that God provides nescicary and sufficient explanatory power to account for these phenomeno. The evidence points to god tot he same (or a lesser) degree than it does to a verity of other expalantions (ethical theory for morality, evolutionry biology for order, complexity and purpose) and as such we would be able to accept many other equally plausable but equally cop-out answers (in the form of the other religions mainly) to these questions. I think that we'll never answer these questions to 100% certainty but it's better to struggle than give up to an easy sollution.

The first cause of all things has to be eternal (outside time) as all things inside time have a begining, implying that something existed before them. If the first cause is eternal, then anything it has a chance of doing, even an implausably tiny chance, will actually be done, because all probabilities will be multiplied by an eternal/infinite time scale. I also see no reason why the first cause shoul be personal rather than impersonal, because an eternal and impersonal first cause would be morecreative (expanatory) and simpler (requiring less explanation) than an eternal and personal first cause. Is it possible to be both outside time and personal; surely several key components of personability (such as emotion or reason) requre reacting to events as they happen and as such cannot exist for something outside time? I see no reason why this world is the only logically possible world, and as Christianity requires that we were specially created by God, I fail to see how the religion can survive.

The Christian faith requires moral responsability for judgment, original sin and the forgivness of sins. If people are not morally responsable, as we do not have ultimate free will (as opposed to proximate free will, equivelant to rationality) due to agent nonspecific determinism or indeterminism, the christian faith would loose it's grounding.

Why do so many people take agnosticism to be something special to religion? It's an epistimiological idea, that no claim about the world (Except subjective personal statments like "i exist" or "i'm making a post on the South Park Studios") can be prooven to a degree of 100% certainty as evidence can only proove something via a process of induction, and inductive logic cannot prove anything certainly. Whilst we can't proove that the external world exists, very few of us woud be willing to live our lives as a true skeptic; this is because, when we have two options, they are not nescicarilly 50:50 in terms of evidence. The evidence for the external world is almost uncountably large, and the evidence for it not existing is infantismally small, therefor we can accet that an external world exists. The same can be said for god; we can never proove that he exists or does not exist, but there is more than enough evidence to come to the conclusion that He does not. That said, some conceptions of god are incoherent or hold contradictory traits and as such are logically impossible like triangular squares.

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Kelly MacCornmac
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Re: Religion. Keep on topic, argue through PMs.

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:41 pm

^Its a shame that I'm not as good with philosopigal crap as you...

Anyways, why would God want to create humans anyway? To pass his time? I do not think a God would get bored, or he would be bored for forever. Because he is lonely? But that corrupts the perfect God. To teach morality? Why would he want to teach morality to something that does not exist yet?

Why would God give people free will, if they have it? It is so good, why not give lesser beings free will? Are they not worth it?

Why would God torture an animal for a few days and then have it die?

And for the sake of argument, please don't say that God acts in mysterious ways. Lets just say that God is about as rational as you or I, so that we can compare motives better instead of arguing wither or not God wants it to happen or not happen.
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