Chanukah

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PicklesNumber1
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Re: Chanukah

Postby PicklesNumber1 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:46 am

Happy whatever holiday everyone celebrates!

Chanukah
Christmas
Kwanzaa
Etc
Thats right. I drive a YT-1300.

Im a Jesus Freak.
Big-Will
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Re: Chanukah

Postby Big-Will » Thu Dec 25, 2008 9:21 am

jewish pride wrote:hey zzyzx, did you find out yet how Chanukah is spelled in spanish?

Jánuca. Each language has its own spelling of holidays. Spanish doesn't use k's very often, and its h sound is denoted by J, which has an H sound in Spanish (you've all seen it - Tijuana, fajitas, jalapenos, etc).
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zzyzx
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:32 pm

Image

Big-Will wrote:
jewish pride wrote:hey zzyzx, did you find out yet how Chanukah is spelled in spanish?

Jánuca. Each language has its own spelling of holidays. Spanish doesn't use k's very often, and its h sound is denoted by J, which has an H sound in Spanish (you've all seen it - Tijuana, fajitas, jalapenos, etc).


Thanks, Big-Will. However, the "J" is still pronounced as an "H," not a direct transliteration of the Hebrew "chet" with the gutteral sound. I was not only going to find the Spanish spelling (which Big-Will so kindly provided), but I also was going to find a spanish word that was pronounced similar to the "chet" in hebrew so that JP and anyone else could have a better sense of what the hebrew letter "chet" sounds like. And I am still searching with it.

But yes, Jánuca is the Spanish spelling! The Romance languages of course are a branch of the Indo-European language family comprising all the languages that descend from Latin, the language of ancient Rome. It includes English and Spanish, which is why the "H" sound is used is "Hanukkah" and Jánuca. But the spelling: "Chanuka" tries to emulate the "chet" in hebrew, which is not a decendant of the Romance family of languages, but of the Semitic languagers. And that sound is what I am trying to locate of "jewish pride" in Spanish.

But, yes, Jánuca is the Spanish spelling.

Now, today is the fifth day of Chanukah at sun-down. For today, I thought I would just give a little more history of Chanukah:

Chanukah, is also called ” Feast of the Maccabees, ” It was instituted by Judas Maccabeus, his brothers, and the elders of the congregation of Israel, in the year 165 B.C.E. (or 165 BC). Three years earlier, on the same day, Antiochus Epiphanes had caused a pagan altar to be set up at the altar of burnt offerings in the Temple at Jerusalem, and sacrifices to be offered to his idol. The idol called “Zeus Olympius”.

After having recovered the Holy City and the Temple, Judas ordered the latter to be cleansed, a new altar to be built in place of the one polluted, and new holy vessels to be ade. When the fire had been kindled anew upon the altar and the lamps of the candlestick lit, the dedication of the altar was celebrated for eight days amid sacrifices and songs.

The actual reason for the selection of the twenty-fifth of Kislev by Judas Maccabeus for the dedication of the altar is that on the very same day three years earlier Antiochus Epiphanes had an altar set up at the altar of burnt offerings in the Temple of Jerusalem and sacrifices offered to his idol Zeus Olympius. The twenty-fifth of Kislev was accordingly a day sacred also to the non-jews before it became a Jewish festival. According to Ewald , it had been celebrated as the winter solstice feast by the Jewish people before it became a historical festival associated with the Maccabean victory. So the 25th of Kislev was the day that was picked to remember the Maccabeus's victory over Antiochus Epiphanes.

Happy 5th day of Chanukah

Merry Christmas

Happy Kwanzaa Eve

Have a great day!
Last edited by zzyzx on Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chanukah

Postby butters kenny » Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:27 pm

Big-Will wrote:
jewish pride wrote:hey zzyzx, did you find out yet how Chanukah is spelled in spanish?

Jánuca. ).



Really? You think I would know that..
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Re: Chanukah

Postby jewish pride » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:46 am

Big-Will wrote:
jewish pride wrote:hey zzyzx, did you find out yet how Chanukah is spelled in spanish?

Jánuca.

thankee :D

Feliz Jánuca!!! :wink:
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Re: Chanukah

Postby Big-Will » Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:42 am

Scottish (loch) and maybe Irish have the sound zzyzx is trying to demonstrate. Spanish just doesn't have it.
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:21 pm

Image

Tonight at sundown, Dec. 26, 2008 is the sixth day of Chanukah.

("jewish pride"): Esta noche a la puesta del sol, el 26 de diciembre, 2008 es el sexto día de Jánuca.

Big-Will wrote:Scottish (loch) and maybe Irish have the sound zzyzx is trying to demonstrate. Spanish just doesn't have it.


That's perfect, Big-Will. I did not even think of that. Scottish Gaelic (Gàidhlig) is of course a member of the Goidelic branch of Celtic languages. It is not part of the Romance Languages nor the Semitic Languages. The "ch" sound is very similar to each other in "Chanukah" and "Loch."

Nevertheless, I seem to recall some friends of mine, whose first language is Spanish, speak some words in Spanish that sounded similar to me to the "Ch" sound that I am talking about. Unfortunately, they have been out of town for the holidays, so I could not consult with them yet to verify this. Nevertheless, Jewish Pride, if you are familiar with the Scottish sound of the "ch" in the word "Loch," than substitute that sound for the "Já" in "Jánuca."

I will still try to find the definitive answer for you as to the "ch" sound. But for now, JP, just use: "Jánuca."

And happy first day of Kwanzaa, everyone one!
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Re: Chanukah

Postby jewish pride » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:07 pm

^ thanks a lot zzyzx! <3

zzyzx wrote:("jewish pride"): Esta noche a la puesta del sol, el 26 de diciembre, 2008 es el sexto día de Jánuca.

oh, feliz quinto dia de Jánuca atrasado! :oops:
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Fri Dec 26, 2008 8:16 pm

There are many Chanukah songs. However, just a few are generally well known by most people, Jews and non-Jews alike, such as: "My Deidel" (a/k/a/ "I have a little Dreydel, I made it out of clay, . . ."

How about this song? I will give it in English, then in Yiddish, and finally, for those who may find it helpful, in Spanish:

(I don't believe that It is well known; that's why I'm posting it):

English:

Who can retell the thing that befell us?
Who can count them?

In every age, a hero or sage,
Arose to our aid!

Hark! In days of yore, in Israel's ancient land,
Brave Maccabeus led the faithful band.

But now all Israel must as one arise,
Redeem itself thru deed and sacrifice.

<<//The "Israel" does NOT mean the country of Israel. It means the jewish people, the ancestors of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel//>>

Yiddish:

Wer kann Es werden das, was uns widerfahren ist?
Wer kann sie zählen?

In jedem Alter, ein Held oder Salbei,
Entstanden, um unsere Hilfe!

Hark! In Tagen yore, in Israel alte Land,
Brave Maccabeus führte die Gläubigen Band.

Aber jetzt ganz Israel muss als eines entstehen,
Lösen sich durch Tat und Opfer.

<<//Die "Israel" bedeutet nicht das Land Israel. Es bedeutet, das jüdische Volk, die Vorfahren von Jakob, dessen Name geändert wurde, um Israel//>>

Spanish:

¿Quién puede repetir lo que ocurrió con nosotros?
¿Quién puede contar con ellos?

En todos los tiempos, un héroe o sabio,
Surgió en nuestra ayuda!

Hark! En días de antaño, en la antigua tierra de Israel,
Brave Maccabeus llevó a la banda de fieles.

Pero ahora todo Israel debe surgir como una,
Redimirse a través de escritura pública y el sacrificio.

<<//El "Israel" no significa que el país de Israel. Esto significa que el pueblo judío, los antepasados de Jacob, cuyo nombre fue cambiado a Israel//>>

Happy Chanukah!
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:53 pm

Image

Tonight, at sundown, the seventh night of Chanukah, here is another generally unknown, small song:

On this night, let us light,
Seven little candle fires,
‘Tis a sight, O so bright,
Seven little candle fires.

They say “Fight for the right!”
Say little candle fires.
So this night, let us light,
Seven little candle fires.

Here’s a better song:

English: (Rock of Ages):

Rock of ages, let our song
Praise Thy saving power;
Thou amidst the raging foes
Wast our shelt’ring tower

Furious they assailed us
But Thine arm availed us

And Thy word, broke their sword,
When our own strength failed us,

And Thy word, broke their sword,
When our own strength failed us.

Transliteration from the Hebrew: (Ma-Oz-Tsur):

Ma-oz tsur y’ shu-a-ti
L’cho na-eh l’sha-be-ach

Ti-kon bet t’fi-la-ti,
V’sham to-dah n’za-be-ach.

L’et ta-chin mat-be-ach,
Mi’tsar ha m’na-be-ach,

Az egmor, b’shir, miz-or,
Cha-nu-kah ha-miz-be ach,

Az egmor, b’shir, miz-or,
Cha-nu-kah ha-miz-be ach.


Happy Chanukah, everyone!
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:54 pm

Image

Tonight, at sundown, the eighth day (and final day for this year) of Chanukah starts. Remember, on the Jewish Lunar Calendar, the day starts at SUNDOWN, not at Midnight.

I hope everyone enjoyed this Holiday Season, no matter what you celebrate at this time, from Chanukah, to Christmas, Kwanzaa, or anything else at al :D

I have already discussed why there appears in English many ways to spell Chanukah.

In Hebrew, Chanukah is spelled like this:

חנוכה

Hebrew is read from right to left, unlike English which is read from left to right. The first letter, "chet" is this letter:
"ח"

The Hebrew letter "Hay" looks like this:
ה
The "Hay" is pronounced as an "H"; it is also sometimes a silent letter, i.e., it appears in the writing of the word, but it is not pronounced.

But the "Chet" has no equivalent in English. It is more like a gargling sound, as Big-Will suggested earlier, similar to the "ch" in the Scottish word: "loch."

Because there is no similar sound in English, many spellings have come up. I am most familiar with: Chanukah, pronouncing the "Ch" as the gargling sound (not "ch" as in "chocolate.")

Greeting card companies (I cite family history for seeing this change while my family was selling greeting cards) seem to now mostly use: "Hanukkah."

Spellings I have found are:

Chanuka
Chanukah
Chanukkah
Channukah
Hanukah
Hannukah
Hanukkah
Hanuka
Hanukka
Hanaka

The "double "n"" is not correct, as a true transliteration is:

Cha-nu-kah; no "double n" exists in the Hebrew spelling and pronunciation.

So I leave you with good wishes for the last day of Chanukah, a promise that I will be researching the various English spellings of the hebrew word:

חנוכה (which is really the way to spell Chanukah)

{Note the first letter on the right, the "chet" and the last letter on the left, the "hay," both appear in the same word (Cha-nu-kah)! As each letter is different, I still don't know why in some circles the "chet" is transliterated to a "hay."}

And I will search other Romance languages (from the Latin) that may have some words or letter combinations with the sound I am trying to describe.

After tonight, (actually at sundown tomorrow), we end Chanukah for 2008, or on the Jewish lunar calendar, the year 5769.

Chanukah for 2009 (5770) begins in 348 days, at sundown on Friday, December 11, 2009.

That means for 2009, day eight begins on December 18 (at sundown) and ends at sundown on December 19. So on December 25, the day Christmas is celebrated, Chanukah will already be over.

Happy Holidays, Everyone!

And have a Happy New Year in 2009

Happy Chanukah, everone!
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:18 pm

Well, tonight, (Dec. 29), at sundown, Chanukah is officially over.

I hope this thread was enjoyable and educational to everyone.

Thanks for all your input, SPS users :D

At Sundown, on the Jewish Lunar Calendar, the date on the Calendar will be:

Tevet 03, 5769.

Only 347 days left until Chanukah in 2009!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Re: the guttural sound of "Ch" in certain words in current events:

Here is the start of an article in the Newspaper of The Washington Post in Washington, D.C. in today's paper:

"JERUSALEM, Dec. 28 -- Israeli warplanes struck a broad array of targets in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip on Sunday, hitting a security compound, a mosque, the Islamic University, a television station and a network of smugglers' tunnels along the border with Egypt as Hamas fired fresh volleys of rockets... "

Notice the spelling of "Hamas" with the "H."

On television, I watched a report, with English speaking representatives of both the Israeli Army and Hamas leaders. I heard both representatives pronounce the word: "Hamas" as "Chamas", that is, with the same guttural sound of "Ch" as in "Chanukah." So if locals in the Middle East pronounce the word as: Chah-Mas, I find it interesting that here in the West the newspapers are spelling Chah-Mas as Hamas with the "H", just as "Chanukah" is spelled now in the West as "Ha-Nuk-kah."

I found that interesting. Locals in the Middle East pronounce the word as "Ch" as in "Chanukah", however "Chamas" is spelled as "Hamas", as Chanukah is now spelled as Hanukkah.

I just thought that I would toss this piece of information out there. Locals pronounce "Hamas" with the guttural sound of "Ch"

Happy New Year 2009 everyone!

I wish everyone a great new year!

-zzyzx
Last edited by zzyzx on Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Frosty_D
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Re: Chanukah

Postby Frosty_D » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:28 pm

Yea it has. Though ... there might be a few things that I'm forgetting to ask you.... but it slipped my mind.... oh well, if I can think of them I will ask ya in a pm or in a thread....
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Re: Chanukah

Postby zzyzx » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:37 pm

^please do :)

Chanukah may be over, but this thread is not over. Posts will continue to be made, and my research of how the greeting card industry changed the spelling of Chanukah to Hanukkah is on going. I even emailed Hallmark for their take on the subject. I will post their response. And I will research American Greeting Card Company, and many others.

And then I will edit the Chanukah entry on Wiki too.

This thread is not over. it is continuing.

And in only 347 more days, Chanukah returns!

Happy Tevet 03, 5769 everyone :D

btw, here is an interesting smilie I found:

Image
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Re: Chanukah

Postby Frosty_D » Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:58 pm

They probally will not respond.
<offtopic>
uh.... I'm probally going to use your picture in the sig as a reference</offtopic>

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