RELIGION - what? LET'S UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES!

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JohnHorn
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby JohnHorn » Mon May 25, 2009 9:30 am

I thought I was a pervert and now I find that is disgusting. :lol: ,
Stupid Genius
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Stupid Genius » Mon May 25, 2009 1:00 pm

superiorsavior wrote:
I personally think that the only objects we can worship are intelligent people

Disproved empirically; people do worship god, so they can worship metaphysical abstracts. They worship tree-spirits in some places, and not so intelligent ancestors. if you mean "we should worship" then I still think your wrong; worshiping an intelligent person isn't going to bring any good to the table!

Yes, I meant "should worship". And I don't mean that literally(Is that sentence structure correct?)...I think, we should not worship anything. We just should spend more money on science than on entertainment.

We can neither proof the existence, nor the non-existence of a higher being.

And for the issue of god, on my evidence base, what is most probable is that there is none, just as on my evidence base i predict that the sun will rise tommorow though cannot be certain. Agnosticism should not be confined to religious matters, it doesn't mean anything.
Well? What evidence base do you have? Didn't he fulfill your wishes? We just have no evidence. We have experiences and impressions, and we all are able to misinterpret the facts.

we might, in the future, can proof the existence(or non-existence) of a higher being

It is impossible to proof or disproof anything.
Well, judging only from this point of view, our whole society would fall apart. Of course we can't be sure if fire was, is, and allways will be hot. But we can be pretty sure about it, since we never heard or experienced something different. Maybe it's is not philsophic, but from my point of view, gravity is proven. But seriously, unless you show me a heavy object that doesn't fall to the ground, I won't change my mind on that behalf.

I am agnostic

But are you an athiestic agnostic or a theistic agnostic?
Well, I guess one can say I am an atheistic agnostic. I haven't seen god, I haven't experienced god, and I haven't heard of him from a serious source. In the end, I think if god existed, he's quite an assh*le for letting us guess...

If you are doing things that help other people, it is not the church that should influence your actions

I don't care about motivation; if an action provides good, it is a good action. The only wrong is not maximizing the good; any means to this end is justified though the most justified is that which is most certain to provide the largest balance of good over evil. What is good, I hold it is anything that people would prefer, but there are alternative theories. Metaphysics doesn't really help us with ethics.
I am just not sure about this topic. I think, motivation matters, too. But seeing the world as it is now, we should be thankful to any person providing "the good"...which is, of course, quite hard to define, although I think you did a pretty good job :wink:
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superiorsavior
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby superiorsavior » Mon May 25, 2009 1:38 pm

We just should spend more money on science than on entertainment.

No question there. Imagine all the good that could be achieved from investing the money from religious tax breaks into science.

What evidence base do you have? Didn't he fulfill your wishes? We just have no evidence. We have experiences and impressions, and we all are able to misinterpret the facts.

I hold that, while uncertain, our experiences are a form of evidence, the only candle we have in the darkness to show us the path that is most likely to lead us to the truth about external reality. It's my view that we should each attempt to expand our expierience base as much as is possible, and should consider as many arguments against our positions as we encounter.

we can be pretty sure about it, since we never heard or experienced something different

It's my view that we can be almost as certain of God's existence or nonexistence as we can be about the fire's burning us or gravity's continued operation; we have no evidence for god and until some presents itself I will go with the hypothesis that there is no god as I will go with the hypothesis that there is gravity until i see a heavy object float upwards. We can't live with this kind of skepticism and would act as though there were no God until evidence appeared to show otherwise.

, I guess one can say I am an atheistic agnostic.

Some religious doctrines such as faith itself, in my view are incomparable with agnosticism and require a level of unjustified certainty.

In the end, I think if god existed, he's quite an assh*le for letting us guess...

The beginning of thisessay echoes your point.

I am just not sure about this topic.

Ethics is an amazingly more difficult and important topic than religion and yet it seems rather neglected. Not only does the good need to be defined (I've also seen it defined in terms of fulfilling our purpose, and in terms of acting in accordance with duty so its a difficult problem) but the question of weather there are many or only one good, how we can know the good, weather we should attempt to do good and avoid or maximize good and minimize evil, weather we should maximise good for ourselves as individuals or in the world in general, weather the good is the same for all people or differs between us, weather morality is a guide to action or an evaluative procedure, weather it is intended to guide the group or the individual, and weather all moral disagreements are rationally resolvable, are some of the questions open in ethics.... but people focus on the less grulin and important task of 'does god exist.'

If you really do think otherwise, you're one hell of a bigot.

He's not the only one but it might not be saying what you think it is

There is really no problem with it, if you look passed the extremists

The thing is, even if all Christians were liberals, that wouldn't make their metaphysical views (the creator of all things was personal, perfect and had a son) any less absurd and unevidenced. It is not an 'attack' on religion (at least not from me) but more expressing or if you would rather, proselytizing my views. Though I agree with you, there are much bigger topics that could be debated; they're just harder! So people fall back on debating religion.

SS, I have noticed a certain posting habit of yours for quite some time..When you quote people, you tend not say who the quote came from, and you just pick out one little sentence out of what that person said..Sometimes it seems that you kind of take what some of those people say out of context. What is up with that?

It's an Ad Hominim that has nothing to do with religion, that's what it is :P
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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby M00ndragon69 » Mon May 25, 2009 8:38 pm

Here is a quote from SS.

The thing is, even if all Christians were liberals, that wouldn't make their metaphysical views (the creator of all things was personal, perfect and had a son) any less absurd and unevidenced. It is not an 'attack' on religion (at least not from me) but more expressing or if you would rather, proselytizing my views. Though I agree with you, there are much bigger topics that could be debated; they're just harder! So people fall back on debating religion.

Now, although he says his first sentence in this paragraph isn't an attack on religion, it certainly does look like one. And yes, there are bigger issues in this whole mess than whether or not things that cannot be proven with science are real or relevent. The real issue behind this whole mess is people using their beliefs to try to control other people. And that can be anyone, not just religious people. There are many people from all religious or non religious backgrounds who just really want to make people their bitch. As many people as possible. Yes they might make nice speeches about how people should better their lives and such, and sound like they care so much about the well being of others, but what they really really want is to have those they "help" have some kind of dependence on them. No one who has this secret motivation wants to admit it, so they debate religion and point their fingers at other people and say they are the ones who want to manipulate people. That is the real problem. Not people believing in Gods or supernatural things, it is people wanting to control others and you don't just see that in religious situations.

Going back to what SS said if all Christians were liberal..Well if they all were and they all didn't try to convert people who didn't want to be apart of their religion, and treated those people as equals, and if they left all the "heathens" the f*ck alone to live their own lives, I would have no problem with them. I still wouldn't share their beliefs, but that doesn't mean I would feel like they didn't have a right to believe the way they wanted or that I should tell them their beliefs are absurb. You know, calling someone's beliefs absurb is something an assh*le does anyway, and in the long run it makes you, your arguements, and often ( unfortunately for them since you were the one who made the comment not them) people who share your views look bad.
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Schliby
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Schliby » Mon May 25, 2009 10:06 pm

You know what i find a bit annoying about Atheists? They complain about how religious people try and force there religion on people, and are assh*les because they don't respect other religions... But Atheists themselves do not respect religion, and call the people who are religious stupid, in another thread, someone said in response to the sentence '"more americans say they have no religion", "The rest of the population is finally catching up with the best of us". Now isn't that ironic and hypocritical? You complain about religious people being ignorant, intolerant, and forceful... But you yourselves are stuck up, intolerant, and somewhat forceful
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
JohnHorn
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby JohnHorn » Mon May 25, 2009 10:15 pm

the violent threats of hell eternal damnation?
the stories about the end of the world?
forcing people to accept their lord?
——— just to put that in context.
gtaca2005
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby gtaca2005 » Tue May 26, 2009 12:33 am

Schliby wrote:You know what i find a bit annoying about Atheists? They complain about how religious people try and force there religion on people, and are assh*les because they don't respect other religions... But Atheists themselves do not respect religion, and call the people who are religious stupid, in another thread, someone said in response to the sentence '"more americans say they have no religion", "The rest of the population is finally catching up with the best of us". Now isn't that ironic and hypocritical? You complain about religious people being ignorant, intolerant, and forceful... But you yourselves are stuck up, intolerant, and somewhat forceful


I do believe that was me, sir. And I make no apologies.

They are catching up in the sense that they are not scared of hell, not that they're stupid. I believe that most people in the Christian dogma don't have faith, they have fear.

I cannot speak for other religions because I don't know much about them. And I don't need to, they aren't intruding on my life.

And some don't have a "hell", so instead of fear, they believe with "honesty". In other words, their faith has more weight to it.
----------------------------------------

Yes I am a dick to Social Conservative Christians, and I will not apologize. I will only respect Socially Liberal Christians who "live and let live".
Last edited by gtaca2005 on Tue May 26, 2009 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
Wii fit man
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Wii fit man » Tue May 26, 2009 2:31 am

Schliby wrote:You know what i find a bit annoying about Atheists? They complain about how religious people try and force there religion on people, and are assh*les because they don't respect other religions... But Atheists themselves do not respect religion, and call the people who are religious stupid, in another thread, someone said in response to the sentence '"more americans say they have no religion", "The rest of the population is finally catching up with the best of us". Now isn't that ironic and hypocritical? You complain about religious people being ignorant, intolerant, and forceful... But you yourselves are stuck up, intolerant, and somewhat forceful

You know I like ya Schliby, but this HUGE blanket statement. When have I EVER said religous people are dumb? That's right, I have NEVER said that. Please don't generalize..

and gtaca, please don't be mean to him. He actually is really nice.
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Schliby
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Schliby » Tue May 26, 2009 2:47 am

Oh sh*t, sorry man, i didnt say any of you did (i didnt mean to anyway...) i said that some of the atheists i have talked to have expressed beliefs such as that. No offense to anyone here, i have kind of have bad experiences with atheists (once again, not on this forum, but from my experiences around where i live and stuff like that...)
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
Wii fit man
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Wii fit man » Tue May 26, 2009 2:50 am

It's OK Schliby.

It quite dissapoints me actually that I am the only atheist in my entire school of 1000+ students, including staff as well. I am persecuted for my beliefs quite often. It really sucks.


(I'm sorry if i mispelled or anything, my keyboard is currently being a f*cktard)
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Schliby
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Schliby » Tue May 26, 2009 2:56 am

My school has to many atheists to count, sometimes, religious people are made fun of.

One time, a teacher asked for the answer to a really hard question and i complained whispering "Oh, god" to myself.

And the teacher stood up, looked me in the eyes and said "There is no god to help you out mark, god cant help you now, don't ask for his help"
"Time is a thing we must accept.
The unexpected I sometimes fear.
Just when I feel there's no excuse
for what happens, things fall into place.
I know there is no way to avoid
the pain that we must go through,
to find the other half that is true"
Wii fit man
Posts: 11153
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Wii fit man » Tue May 26, 2009 2:59 am

....

That sucks, I hate people like that give atheists a bad name.

But can we trade how many there are? i want more, you want less... it's a win-win.
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gtaca2005
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby gtaca2005 » Tue May 26, 2009 3:00 am

Wii fit man wrote:It's OK Schliby.

It quite dissapoints me actually that I am the only atheist in my entire school of 1000+ students, including staff as well. I am persecuted for my beliefs quite often. It really sucks.


(I'm sorry if i mispelled or anything, my keyboard is currently being a f*cktard)

Wow, I go to an alternative school and there are only like 15 people in class on a given day, and we have at least 4 Atheists and 1 Deist and 1 Agnostic.....

Maybe because California isn't so Conservative? I don't know......
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby M00ndragon69 » Tue May 26, 2009 3:02 am

Yeah GTACA and Schiliby are both nice people..You guys, stop fighting, because you are both better than that. And really the problem here actually is GTACA has probably had problems with assh*le Christians in the past and Schiliby has had problems wih assh*le Atheists. If that happens enough it gets hard to tell the assh*les from the nonassholes, and people get defensive. Yeah it shouldn't be like that, people shouldn't let bad experiences influence them, but think about this, the assh*les usually do not seem like assh*les at first. That is why they got the chance to sh*t on you.
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Wii fit man
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Re: RELIGION - Found God in Church. Lost him outside.

Postby Wii fit man » Tue May 26, 2009 3:03 am

In fact, it seems like we're the only atheists in our state...


There are others here in North VA (but still not many), but in the super conservative south VA.. *Shivers*
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