RELIGION - what? LET'S UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES!

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby M00ndragon69 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:41 am

Now as for the debate about the afterlife, and eveyones different BELIEFS and OPINIONS about what happens after people die..Well ok who here has a had a real near death experience? Where you actually flat lined? With some of your attitudes, I almost want to try that experiment on your from that movie Flatliners..Or maybe most of you are too young to remember that movie, it came out in 1990. I don't know..I just think it is absurb to be acting like you are so certain about what after people die when most people don't come back to tell the tale. I do believe in the after life, but I think it is different for differnet people, and I do believe in ghosts ( yeah, go ahead and point and laugh), but that is just my opinion, you don't have to agree with me.


And SPDude, I am mostly just f*cking with SS...He should really know I do not take this board seriously, if I did, I wouldn't have done things a few years ago that could have gotten me banned..If I take a board seriously, I actually try to stay on people's good sides.
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superiorsavior
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:45 am

Congrats on joining, 666! Hope your stay here is a pleasant one :P

I may find eternal bliss boring.

Oops I worded that badly; i meant it might not put you in a better position with regard to knowing weather or not God exists. If your a ghost or reincarnated, but don't see someone calling themselves God, it doesn't disprove the idea of a personal creator, but doesn't prove it either.

I choose on what will not only be allowed in society

It's still ultimately based on what you like; You like a bunch of things that you reasonably suspect will be taken away if you perform a crime, more than you would like to perform that crime.

If you mean genetics, someone must've had the free will in the first place.

I don't understand what you mean in this statement; I know i didn't freely choose my genetics (random fertilization of sperm and egg did that) not to mention my prenatal hormone expierience and upbringing.

it is absurb to be acting like you are so certain about what after people die

The only evidence for the afterlife, near death experiences, can be explained much more simply without evoking entire supernatural realms. The mind appears utterly dependent on the brain; removing certain areas can remove personality functions, stimulating them causes feelings, in a way that is difficult to explain in the 'soul model.' There are also a lot of problems with the person living after death being the same person as the one who lived; while views on how someone can be the same person when there's been a break in the spaceo-temporal continuity of their life are more common, i tend to take the view that we are constantly changing, that our self only lasts for an instant before dying and becoming something slightly different, and that apart from being housed in the same body (which could not be continued in an afterlife) the only continuity is that each personality state is contingent on the last, and a few other things, which may be other people's personality states. While you probably reject this kind of afterlife, when we concern heavenly paradises that cure people's diseases, and consider serious lifelong physical and mental diseases, it seems like the cure would make someone a completely different individual; would we be different people if we suddenly developed infared vision, yes we would, would someone with anxiety disorder or depression be a different person if they lost those traits, probably. When the soul comes along is another oddity; do foetuses have souls, if so what happens when twins split, do foetus souls age in the afterlife or are they perminantly foetuses, if they do age when does it stop or do they continue to age perpetually, why do humans have souls and not animals, why animals and not plants, why plants and not bacteria, viruses, rocks, empty space; all rather absurd. How does the soul observe this world, as all observation requires chemical interaction, and if photons can enter a soul's eyes or gas it's nose, why can't it interact with larger objects, and if photons can enter it's eye why can't they bounce off it? I find that the idea isn't very fleshed out usually, doesn't really say what souls are. People may always be wrong about anything, including my idea of what preserves someone's self, but I think the most probable idea by far is that there is no afterlife, as there's simply no evidence for it, and it's an unlikely idea to be true by chance.

I have alot of people in my life who I care about

I was possibly projecting my pessimism onto you; I do think there is an ideal system out there for us to find, though we're unlikely to ever do so, we may construct ones that overshadow the current mode if we experement more. That said it's not in my personal power to do so. While i have great people in my life, a great life it is, i still feel there's a lot outside anyone's control, and plus, just knowing that other people who are as deserving as me or possibly more suffer while i prosper is enough to get me down, especially when most of this is human caused and seemingly easilly eradicated (retributive punishments, prohibitory laws, non-universal healthcare, overpopulation, unwanted children, empty houses, enough food to feed the world but an obesity epidemic in the west) if only we came together to change it, but we haven't so far and probably never will.

really talk, about your problems,debating ideas about morality

Just the avarage overfed emo-teen angst; how to be an individual while also being a good person? I don't think there's anything wrong with being conflicted to the point of apathy, it gives me an incentive to figure out what desires I (for want of a better word) should aspire to holding and acting on, but if there's no such thing as a good or bad desire (as i'm beginning to think) I could do literally anything! I could end up like the dice man but following a code is more absurd when i think it's false; plus I have nigglign doubts about weather subjective morality could build up into an pseudo-objective morality (if it's better to get what you desire, it's inconsistant for a world where more people get what they desire to be a better world than one in which less people get their desire).

I am mostly just f*cking with SS.

I still half think you give a sh*t, which is what makes it fun to f*ck with you :P f*ck if you read this ramble you did better than me, i just wrote it, no thought involved :P
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby BlueEyes4u2nv » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:11 am

SPDude666 wrote:M00ndragon: First, thank you for the welcome ;)

And also, I'm just curious, but why do you care if we debate anyway? I mean, it's not like you have to go to this thread.

No offence intended...


Ouch...

M00ndragon, Would you like some ice for those burns? Scratch that we may need some glaciers over here.
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superiorsavior
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:55 pm

LOL over 300 arguments for god's existence!

Experiencing the God Delusion for the first time, as an audiobook, I've been struck by how strongly the argument I typed seven posts up (before hearing Dawkin's text) is to the one Dawkins presents. Is this similarity because Dawkin's views have permiated society to such an extent that I subconsciously picked them up, is it the direction in which the evidence leads people with a particular mindset, is it coincidence or something completely different?

This question doesn't just apply to this case; i've seen a several people who come up with strikingly similar arguments despite being seemingly independent from one another and wondered, are they really as indipendant as has been presumed, or is there a common cause of their shared views?
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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:20 am

LOL...Whatever Blue Eyes. I don't think he was trying to burn me, he was just asking a question..And even if he was, he would have to try harder to burn me. I am opinionated, and I am not afraid to present an unpopular opinion. I am not afraid to tell someone off either. People don't like those things, you should have seen the sh*t I was called another board. The whole thing about if I don't like the debating, why don't you go to another thread, well I have heard that before. Or a similar variation of the same idea.
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BlueEyes4u2nv
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby BlueEyes4u2nv » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:43 am

SPDude666 wrote:M00ndragon: First, thank you for the welcome ;)

And also, I'm just curious, but why do you care if we debate anyway? I mean, it's not like you have to go to this thread.

No offence intended...


BlueEyes4u2nv wrote:
SPDude666 wrote:M00ndragon: First, thank you for the welcome ;)

And also, I'm just curious, but why do you care if we debate anyway? I mean, it's not like you have to go to this thread.

No offence intended...


Ouch...

M00ndragon, Would you like some ice for those burns? Scratch that we may need some glaciers over here.



M00ndragon69 wrote:LOL...Whatever Blue Eyes. I don't think he was trying to burn me, he was just asking a question..And even if he was, he would have to try harder to burn me. I am opinionated, and I am not afraid to present an unpopular opinion. I am not afraid to tell someone off either. People don't like those things, you should have seen the sh*t I was called another board. The whole thing about if I don't like the debating, why don't you go to another thread, well I have heard that before. Or a similar variation of the same idea.


Calm down, Was just a joke.. Ok, just a joke.
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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:57 am

LOL..I am calm..LOL..Whats the matter? Too many big words in my reply for you? LOL...
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BlueEyes4u2nv
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby BlueEyes4u2nv » Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:22 am

Not really here it was

...Whatever Blue Eyes. I don't think he was trying to burn me, he was just asking a question..And even if he was, he would have to try harder to burn me. I am opinionated, and I am not afraid to present an unpopular opinion. I am not afraid to tell someone off either. People don't like those things, you should have seen the sh*t I was called another board. The whole thing about if I don't like the debating, why don't you go to another thread, well I have heard that before. Or a similar variation of the same idea.

Here it is in ones language who isn't trying to impress someone with enormously large words and stretched out sentences.

I dont care Zac. He wasn't trying to put me down, He was only asking me something, If he was he would of done a better job, I say what i want, and I ain't scared to say something stupid. Im not scared to tell someone online off too. People hate that, Should of seen the stuff I was called another board. Everything if i dont argue. go away, well Deja Vu.

Mhm, Didn't make much sense did it?
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SPDude666
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby SPDude666 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:06 am

Thank you guys for keeping these arguments fresh :lol:

It's still ultimately based on what you like
In a way. but some of the things there will get the death penalty- which is very bad, m'kay?

I don't understand what you mean in this statement; I know i didn't freely choose my genetics (random fertilization of sperm and egg did that) not to mention my prenatal hormone expierience and upbringing.
That's really not what i meant, I mean someone else had to have- AAAGH! Now I'm confused! :x

Ouch...

M00ndragon, Would you like some ice for those burns? Scratch that we may need some glaciers over here.
As you can tell by the "no offence" I was trying as hard as I possibly could not to "burn" anyone.

.And even if he was, he would have to try harder to burn me.

Trust me, i wouldn't :wink:
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BlueEyes4u2nv
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby BlueEyes4u2nv » Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:57 am

SPDude666 wrote:Thank you guys for keeping these arguments fresh :lol:

It's still ultimately based on what you like
In a way. but some of the things there will get the death penalty- which is very bad, m'kay?

I don't understand what you mean in this statement; I know i didn't freely choose my genetics (random fertilization of sperm and egg did that) not to mention my prenatal hormone expierience and upbringing.
That's really not what i meant, I mean someone else had to have- AAAGH! Now I'm confused! :x

Ouch...

M00ndragon, Would you like some ice for those burns? Scratch that we may need some glaciers over here.
As you can tell by the "no offence" I was trying as hard as I possibly could not to "burn" anyone.


I know, As typed earlier to M00ndragon69, And I quote "Calm Down, Just a joke" etc. And What your first post was I agree 100 % "why do you care if we debate anyway? I mean, it's not like you have to go to this thread."


.And even if he was, he would have to try harder to burn me.

SPDude666 wrote:Trust me, i wouldn't :wink:

Lulz.
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superiorsavior
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby superiorsavior » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:36 am

some of the things there will get the death penalty- which is very bad, m'kay?
You only end up adhering to the law if you dislike the punishment more than you like the crime, at the time of the deed at least. If you forget about the punishment for a moment due to strong emotions or drugs, you may desire the crime more than the punishment, when in a more sober moment you would not.
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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:18 am

So, Blue Eyes, you like things dumbed down? Why are YOU on this thread then.?..Just look at the things most of the people who post on here write. And why do you care what I do on here?..Not like you actually know me.


And SS..In your last post you are forgetting one thing. Most people don't want the punishment for the crime..It does happen that someone commits a crime wanting to be caught and go to jail..This guy I know said he knows a guy who has a life sentence because he murdered someone, and he intended to get caught. Before he committed this crime, he was in jail, but he was released and he couldn't mentally handle his life outside of prison,so he killed some random person, so he would be sent back and probably never released again. Or at least that was the story the guy told me, I do believe that he probably has a lot of f*cked up friends. So in some cases maybe some people want to be punished. Most people probably do forget they will be punished for a crime, because they are caught up in the momment and forget there are consequences if they get caught..Which brings me to what you forgot. Some people who do very illegal things, and they are premeditated crimes, do not want the punishment, and they think they are not going to get caught.


Here is a topic I don't think has been discussed on here. Religion in popular culture. You not only see a lot of references to religion in shows like South Park or The Simpsons or Family Guy, but also in the horror and fantasy genres and in drama in movies.And in other things like music, and novels..Well, ok, how do you think popular culture influences how people think about religion or their understanding of religions they may not previously know much about?
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby BlueEyes4u2nv » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:25 am

M00ndragon69 wrote:So, Blue Eyes, you like things dumbed down? Why are YOU on this thread then.?..Just look at the things most of the people who post on here write. And why do you care what I do on here?..Not like you actually know me.


And SS..In your last post you are forgetting one thing. Most people don't want the punishment for the crime..It does happen that someone commits a crime wanting to be caught and go to jail..This guy I know said he knows a guy who has a life sentence because he murdered someone, and he intended to get caught. Before he committed this crime, he was in jail, but he was released and he couldn't mentally handle his life outside of prison,so he killed some random person, so he would be sent back and probably never released again. Or at least that was the story the guy told me, I do believe that he probably has a lot of f*cked up friends. So in some cases maybe some people want to be punished. Most people probably do forget they will be punished for a crime, because they are caught up in the momment and forget there are consequences if they get caught..Which brings me to what you forgot. Some people who do very illegal things, and they are premeditated crimes, do not want the punishment, and they think they are not going to get caught.


Here is a topic I don't think has been discussed on here. Religion in popular culture. You not only see a lot of references to religion in shows like South Park or The Simpsons or Family Guy, but also in the horror and fantasy genres and in drama in movies.And in other things like music, and novels..Well, ok, how do you think popular culture influences how people think about religion or their understanding of religions they may not previously know much about?


Who are you to say that? Seriously it's a forum, Where ABSOLUTELY ANYONE can express an opinion. I was trying to tell you that it did not make sense coming from someone's eyes who isn't used to such huge words.

Besides anybody who likes things "dumbed" down has every right to be in this thread.

Thanks.
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:12 am

I think you are the one taking what goes on in this forum too serisously..LOL..
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superiorsavior
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Re: RELIGION - Puttin' faith aside, gettin' down to morals

Postby superiorsavior » Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:54 am

how do you think popular culture influences how people think about religion

I think it's fairly dialectical; the media infects public opinion and as the media is made by the public, public opinion further impacts on the media.

Most people don't want the punishment for the crime

The computer locked up when I pressed post first time and I rushed my wording (hollow excuse) so that last post didn't come out as well as intended. I should have added that, you'll only perform the crime if your more likely to not get caught than to get caught, and if, at the time of the act, you would dislike the punishment less than you would like the crime. This may be because you forget the odds of getting caught, or the severity of the punishment, in the heat of the moment, or because you or some reason don't particularly dislike the punishment. In the case of the person you mention, it's not even a punishment but an active goal or reward for his behaviour; human verity means that what one person prefers may be what another would give almost anything to avoid, such as someone who wishes to die. Thanks for pointing it out though.

you like things dumbed down

Maybe he meant that a large syllable count adds nothing to the meaning of a text? I'd have pointed out that your words wern't really that "big" anyway and the boast wasn't necessary. A variation of the, "if you don't like debating, don't debate" thing, is "if you don't like south park, switch the channel" thing; you can't appeal to the logic of one and not the other, and I rather like the latter, not sure your view on it.

I've recently discovered that other people hold my general metaphysical theory, and it's called modal realism. The basic premise is that all logically possible worlds are as 'real' as this world, and reality is simply indexical, referring to the world in which we exist; this explains the problem of what differentiates a real and an imaginary world: doesn't violate simplicity as much as it appears to, as there is more information in the same number of characters. Any ideas?

I havn't found anyone who shares another idea I've been having for why there is something rather than nothing; perhaps when a location in spacetime has the state of "nothing," that point contains more information than if it had been ambiguous and was equally likely to be nothing, or any kind of something. Each possible world that could be represented by the garble, if all the locations were filled with the right kind of thing, would be equally real. Every possible state would be contained within the garble at the same time. Only if it is interpreted in a classical way will sentient lifeforms like us exist to see it. No one shares this view with me, I only 10% do, but I'd like to know why, so attack it away ;P
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