RELIGION - what? LET'S UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES!

A General discussion about everything other than South Park

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RideTheLightning
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby RideTheLightning » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:05 am

This isn't really something I will argue about, or something I want to argue about (mostly because SS will come him with his Hippopotomonostrosisquipidaliaphobia inducing posts)

But I think it's cool there are so many Atheists these days, but at this rate the world will be abolished of religion in a few hundred years... which, like I said before, wouldn't be good. Like I said, you need religion and atheism. :|
Kelly MacCornmac
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:12 am

Michaeloptv wrote:First off, I never said anything about women or African Americans...Idk who said that so don't blame that on me!! :x
Sorry, I brought it up as an example.


Your right Kmac: Our country was founded on Cristianity
No, I said it was not founded on Christianity. And traditions change all the time, Mike. Traditionally, women were forced to only bear children and stay inside the house, now we can do many things. Changing the tradition is not nessisarly a bad thing.

....I'm done. I cannot argue over this too much or my mind will go nuts!! :P

Fine, back to philosophically.

Why did god create free will if he knew what was going to happen? How is free will a good thing? How do you even know if you have free will at all?

Didn't god create angles? And their weaknesses? If so, why did Satan turn his back against god?

Why do some people think that in order to get to heaven you have to belive in god? Or rather, why do people think that if you do not belive in god, you will suffer an etenal pain?
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miracle123
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby miracle123 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:06 am

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:Why do some people think that in order to get to heaven you have to belive in god? Or rather, why do people think that if you do not belive in god, you will suffer an etenal pain?

I guess that people who believe in these things are mostly afraid of death, so they convince themselves that if they pray to god continually they will have heaven assured, which I think takes some of the fear of death away from them.

Personally, I believe the most important thing is being a good person and that faith in a certain religion will never guarantee you eternal peace, nor will the lack of such faith. In my opinion, the kind of person you are in life is what will have the most relevance when you die.
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RideTheLightning
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby RideTheLightning » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:10 am

.
Why do some people think that in order to get to heaven you have to belive in god? Or rather, why do people think that if you do not belive in god, you will suffer an etenal pain?


Alright, I wanted to stay away from religious stuff, but I'll make this exception. Some people are stupid, and ignorant. They forget that one of the things that is stressed in The Church is as long as you do what's right you'd get into "heaven".
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Wii fit man » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:20 am

Michaeloptv wrote:
Post subject: Re: RELIGION THREAD Reply with quote
Kelly MacCornmac wrote:
Quote:
Jesus Crist is a real person.

I didn't say he was not. He might be real, but the stories around him are more than likely false.

Quote:
I am not saying by any means that people should believe in god, however, it iis not fair for a select few to ruin what our counrty was truly founded on.
Our country was not founded upon Christianity. Our country was based that all men were created equal. Not women, and many say that African Americans were not men, and yet a select few ruined that, do you call this a bad thing?

First off, I agree, Kmac. If jesus existed he was just a good person. Second, I'm not even gonna go into what you said about women or African-Americans, Michaelpotv. And lastly, Atheists are not "ruining the country". It's people who undermine other people's beliefs that are. Just because we don't believe in god doesn't mean we're ruining anything. In fact, there was almost no christianity in the U.S for a long time. Besides, atheism is really making people think. I'm sorry you don't like thinking.


First off, I never said anything about women or African Americans...Idk who said that so don't blame it on me!! :x



Sorry. It just didn't sound very fair.


Anyway, the whole "Noah's ark" thing is bullcrap. How did a guy find two of every animal, even the rare ones? How did he keep the animals from killing or eating each other? How was there enough space? How did he find enough food and water for these animals? Did insects count? I'm just saying, it makes no sense.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby RideTheLightning » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:51 am

Wii fit man wrote:
Anyway, the whole "Noah's ark" thing is bullcrap. How did a guy find two of every animal, even the rare ones? How did he keep the animals from killing or eating each other? How was there enough space? How did he find enough food and water for these animals? Did insects count? I'm just saying, it makes no sense.


Alright, well I just can't pass this by.

The stories in the BIble are...well...stories. Most never happened. They just teach you morals like work hard, do what's right, help others. The point of the Bible is to create a "heaven on Earth" if you will. You can do that by following the Bible. Though you don't HAVE to, if you are a Muslim, use the Coran, if you're an Atheist, do what you are now taught by others. Now the thing is, no matter who told you to do this because it's good, was taught by another, who was taught by another, who was taught by another, until it goes back to people who learned it from The BIble.

I'm not trying to impose, or seem like I'm forcing my religion on you guys, but I'm just saying, you have The Bible to thank for most of the goodness in the world. That's why I hate any Atheist who would say no good has come out of religions.

Sometimes the stories are told in silly ways... like a 200 year old man (it actually says Noah is 200 or something around that age, it might've been 450 :lol: ) traveled around the world and got sh*t loads of animals to save everything. Then the "unicorns" get killed because they disobeyed, they were metaphorical idiots who never tried hard.

The moral of Noah's Ark is to try hard, and be good, and do things for the greater good of mankind.

(and no, I'm not trying to convert anyone, I'm just pointing this out)
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Michaeloptv » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:51 am

I'll admit it. The bible does have flaws.

God could not create earth in 7 days....it is an elliptical period (why they did they do this-ask King James :lol: )

Another one WAS Noah's ark...in which he didn't find one of EVERY animal...it was just 2 of many.... :P

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kmac: you wonder why I am always against change...change is not always good! I don't think Barack Obama is best for our country. Sometimes it is best to keep traditions alive.

Sorry I got the cristianity motion confused. But this country was founded as SP said:

"On basic religion and Freedom". :D

Oh and god turned his back on satan. I am not sure how you got that one mixed up. Satan was from the beginning always the evil one. The story of Adam and Eve proves it. :P

*and not to get you really mad Kmac...but I don't really like philoposphy. To me they dig around too much.... :roll:

Sometimes it is best to leave what is untouched, untouched-so that we can still believe in something.*
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Kelly MacCornmac
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:41 am

Michaeloptv wrote:I'll admit it. The bible does have flaws.

God could not create earth in 7 days....it is an elliptical period (why they did they do this-ask King James :lol: )

Another one WAS Noah's ark...in which he didn't find one of EVERY animal...it was just 2 of many.... :P
Then how do you know if god exists then?

Kmac: you wonder why I am always against change...change is not always good!
I didn't say it was, did I? Keeping traditions isn't always the best either sometimes.

I don't think Barack Obama is best for our country.
To be honest here, I don't really care for politics.


Oh and god turned his back on satan. I am not sure how you got that one mixed up. Satan was from the beginning always the evil one.
So god made him evil?

The story of Adam and Eve proves it. :P

How so? I thought that it was a snake, not Satan.

*and not to get you really mad Kmac...but I don't really like philoposphy

To me they dig around too much.... :roll:

What do you mean, dig around too much?

Sometimes it is best to leave what is untouched, untouched-so that we can still believe in something.*

Uh..... religion has been a touchy subject. And it has been touched before, at least once.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Michaeloptv » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:45 am

We don't know if god truly exists. That is the point of religious belief.... :P

As for Satan, He was always evil. God created him.
and the snake was Satan as a test call for Adam and Eve.

Again, this is what I was brought up to believe. Not YOU!!
so I'm going to stop now..........
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M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:54 am

I was going to post a huge response last night, but somehow I got logged off when I went to go post it. I lost everything I wrote, and said f*ck it, I am not retyping it tonight.

Ok, SS, when I asked the question and phrased it the way I did, I wasn't making generalizations when it comes to atheists. I was pointing out things I have noticed on this board, but actually trying not to be a bitch, and trying not to name the guilty party. I have noticed certain people wanting to tear off someone't throat the minute someone says something about religion that they don't like..It is almost like KTS is still here, and from my point of view, it sucks.

Kelly, what I wanted to say to you last night was, yes Atheists get discriminated against by Christians..And so does every other religion. Think about it. Many Christians, not all but many, believe that everyone ( and that even includes other denominations of Christianity who don't agree with them on certain points) who doesn't believe as they do is being decieved by Satan and they are going to Hell if they don't change. That kind of attitude causes them to not be very nice to everyone who isn't like them. So, your group isn't the only one who is affected by that crap, and at least you aren't the ones who get accused of eating babies and having blood orgies. Whining about it, and attacking everyone on this board who says something about religion isn't going to f*cking change that situation. The only thing you can do to better your situation and get people to not discriminate against you, is to show the people who don't believe as you do that you are human like them. That you deserve to be treated equally. How do you do this? You treat people the way you would want to be treated. The people who don't have their heads up their asses will notice,and maybe change their attitude about atheists..The ones who are going to hate on you for not believing as they do no matter what, well f*ck them too.

And now we come to what I wanted to say to TripleMutliplex's arrogant ass. Ok Triple, does everyone you know who isn't an atheist happen to be a stereotype? Because you sure talk like that is the case. Intellectual laziness my ass. You don't get out much do you, or really talk to people who don't agree with you?. I say that because if you did, you would know that many non Atheists are by no means intellectually lazy. Like my brother for instance. He has beliefs similar to mine, but he also studies technology, medical conditions, history, and he knows his sh*t when it comes to computers. I can name a lot of people who are non Atheists who know their sh*t about things other than religion, even when it comes to things like science. Why do they still have beliefs in supernatural things when they also have researched science, well because people don't belong in boxes, there is room for many different points of view, and some people actually have the point of view that science does not necessarily contradict what they believe when it comes to faith or spirituallity. And who on here has simply explained things away by saying something like "God has a plan" or "God did it"? That is gross over simplification, yeah there are a lot of Christians arguing against you, but they usually throw in things they have researched from the Bible or history or write about an experience from their own life that they feel confirms their faith. Do you think Big Will is intellectually lazy?

Triple, I don't think I have much respect for you anymore. You say that "superstitous" people are holding back the advancement of society, well what are you personally doing to better society? And when you say you are not trying to change people's minds but plant seeds, well I think you are completely full of sh*t when you say that. I have heard just about the same thing out of Christians when they are trying to convert people but seem like they aren't..I have been watching you on this board a long time, and it is very very obvious you have a problem with people who believe differently than you do. How do I know? When things come up about religion the words you choose to convey your opinion betray your bias.

So, who in your life pissed you off about religion to the point where you feel the need to go off on strangers on a message board? And do you lump every other form of religion in with Christianity?
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Wii fit man » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:34 am

OK, that was really unnessacary. Kmac never said only atheists suffer. Triple meant that asking god for everything was intelluctually lazy. He never said every christian was like that, or that everyone else was a stereotype. We weren't "whining" about anything. we were just proving a point. I could say you're whining about what you said. The point of this thread is religon, so if we don't like what's happening, we can post it how ever much we want. Also, we are not acting like how you said, jumping at every possible religous remark. Besides, you're supossed to argue in this thread.
And another thing. Of course there's room for other religons. I have no idea where you got that. We never lumped any religon. You wrote you were trying not to be a bitch, well you didn't do a very good job. :x
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:36 am

No, actually what I said was not just related to things said yesterday, but a bunch of things that have been said over time on this board. In Triple's case, he and I have both been here awhile, many times in the past he has said some things directed to non atheists, and not just Christians that you probably wouldn't like if they were directed towards you. I finally called him on that sh*t.That is why I asked the question in the first place of the athiests. I have been on this board since 2002, and before about 2005 it was fun. Disagreements about politics and religion were not such a huge issue. Now they are. I am tired of it. I don't see a good reason for it. Can't we all f*cking just get along. That is what my real issue is. If someone isn't an assh*le, I couldn't give a f*ck if they are Christian or Atheist or Scientologist, or whatever. I want to come to this board and see less people being assh*les to eachother over religion. We have had years of religious debate, and much of the time that is all people on here talk about. It is not fun anymore, and it is no wonder pretty much all of my friends I made on this board years ago left.

And can't Kelly and everyone speak for themselves?
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby JohnHorn » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:46 am

Well stupidly enough………… if you have something against lumping every religion with christianity.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Your Shadow » Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:37 am

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:
Michaeloptv wrote:I'll admit it. The bible does have flaws.

God could not create earth in 7 days....it is an elliptical period (why they did they do this-ask King James :lol: )

Another one WAS Noah's ark...in which he didn't find one of EVERY animal...it was just 2 of many.... :P
Then how do you know if god exists then?

Kmac: you wonder why I am always against change...change is not always good!
I didn't say it was, did I? Keeping traditions isn't always the best either sometimes.

I don't think Barack Obama is best for our country.
To be honest here, I don't really care for politics.


Oh and god turned his back on satan. I am not sure how you got that one mixed up. Satan was from the beginning always the evil one.
So god made him evil?

The story of Adam and Eve proves it. :P

How so? I thought that it was a snake, not Satan.

*and not to get you really mad Kmac...but I don't really like philoposphy

To me they dig around too much.... :roll:

What do you mean, dig around too much?

Sometimes it is best to leave what is untouched, untouched-so that we can still believe in something.*

Uh..... religion has been a touchy subject. And it has been touched before, at least once.


Kelly,

I find you stubborn, mean, selfish internet-addicted psychopath.
What you are typing and doing lately is really getting on my nerves.

So just really keep the idiotic and stupid remarks to yourself from now on. Also I find you a hipocrit. Double posting when you enforce it on everybody else.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby miracle123 » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:24 pm

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:
It just "helps" you out when you're in that young stage where you're all emotional and kind of weak. Or at least it did me, and many others.

Just like Santa Clause I guess.

No, that's a very different thing.
Santa Clause is for illusion to kids when they are still naive and to keep the childhood filled with wonder.
God is not a childish and naive illusion to people who are religious, but rather their faith as knowledgable mature people, and believing in god has most certainly helped me out in many occasions.

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:Without religious peoples, there will be no disscusions like this :3

As long as we keep it decent and respectful I don't see any problem with such a discussion.

Your Shadow wrote:I apologise if it offends anyone and dont get cranky but, Hey, Have YOU seen jesus/god? Have you HEARD from jesus/god?

With my two eyes and my two ears? No, I haven't. I also haven't seen or heard love/hate with them, or any other kind of feeling, but I can still believe they happen inside of me. I also haven't see or heard the big bang, but I still can believe it happened.

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:Although society is getting better, there is still discrimination against Agnostics/Atheists in the US.

Actually, atheism is spreading fastly these days, to the point that there are many athiests already who have started descriminating religious people, lets not pretend it doesn't work both ways.

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:Bush once said, “No I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens nor should they be considered as citizens nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”

That last sentence automatically excludes all athiests from the USA nation, therefore it is incorrect. The athiest community is too big these days to be ignored in such a way.

triplemultiplex wrote:To me, belief in some kind of supernatural deity, or whatever, is a sign of intellectual laziness.

That is either a stereotype or intellectual lazyness on your part.
My dad is very relgious and one of the most intellectual individuals I've ever seen. He is catholic, he knows plenty of history, he studied plenty about science and he is currently reading about buddhism.
He is an intellectual to the heart and still believes in god and in jesus. I'm putting him as an example because you really cant get a better one, but I most certainly do not consider myself intellectually lazy.

triplemultiplex wrote:To throw one's hands up when one doesn't know how something works or why things are the way they are and just say, "God did it" or "God has a plan..." is a way to absolve responsibility and suppress curiosity about the universe we inhabit.

While it is the case of many religious people, it is not the case of all of them. Please, do not generalize.

Michaeloptv wrote:Kmac, again this country was founded under god. I know it causes some worry about the words in our pledge, but what did President Obama say when he took the oath....

"So help me God!"

Michaeloptv wrote:This is why God is so important to our country...because of our importance of freedom of religion. However, it does not give people the right to go around and change things that have been said for generations just because you are athiests.

Michaeloptv wrote:I am not saying by any means that people should believe in god, however, it iis not fair for a select few to ruin what our counrty was truly founded on.

You are living in another time, my friend, when about everyone in the USA believed in god. Today is a different story. The athiest community is already too big to be ignored or excluded, or be denied from being part of the USA nation as a whole. We are not talking anymore about a select few.

And god doesn't necessarily give freedom of religion on earth, as long as people are tolerant freedom of religion or freedom of non religion will exist, it is not a good reason to include god in the speech.

triplemultiplex wrote:this country is supposed to separate the institutions of church and state that stuff like this sticks in our craw. Just because something's been around for a long time, doesn't necessarily mean it's something that cannot be changed.

Exactly.

RideTheLightning wrote:But I think it's cool there are so many Atheists these days, but at this rate the world will be abolished of religion in a few hundred years... which, like I said before, wouldn't be good. Like I said, you need religion and atheism. :|

I don't get what you mean...

RideTheLightning wrote:Alright, well I just can't pass this by.

The stories in the BIble are...well...stories. Most never happened. They just teach you morals like work hard, do what's right, help others. The point of the Bible is to create a "heaven on Earth" if you will.

Yes, this is pretty much the point made at the end of the episode Red Hot Catholic Love by father Maxi, with which I very much agree with.

M00ndragon69 wrote:Kelly (...) The only thing you can do to better your situation and get people to not discriminate against you, is to show the people who don't believe as you do that you are human like them. That you deserve to be treated equally. How do you do this? You treat people the way you would want to be treated.

This is a very good point, but...
M00ndragon69 wrote:And now we come to what I wanted to say to TripleMutliplex's arrogant ass.

...you do not seem to be following your wise advise very well. I strongly disagree with what TripleMutliplex said as well and he was indeed pretty much stereotyping. Nevertheless, you could have made your point without insulting him.

Your Shadow wrote:Kelly,

I find you stubborn, mean, selfish internet-addicted psychopath.
What you are typing and doing lately is really getting on my nerves.

So just really keep the idiotic and stupid remarks to yourself from now on. Also I find you a hipocrit. Double posting when you enforce it on everybody else.

If these are negative feelings coming from you because you still think Kelly cheated on the awards thread, I tried explaining the system to you once again, please read it and ask me if there is anything you still don't understand.

Please refrain yourself from namecalling and insulting, that was completely uncalled for, mean and rude, not to mention off topic.

And double posting is allowed now by the way, it changed like a week or two ago (I'm totally loosing track of time these days...), that is what Kelly's signature means.

Please people, this is a very delicate matter and there is no way it can work as a decent discussion if you keep insulting and being urespectful to others and their beliefs.

Personally, I believe in god but I don't belong to any religion in particular, but I am more than willing to discuss beliefs and point of view with anyone, religious or not religious, if it is kept decent and uninsulting.
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