It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

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superiorsavior
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:24 am

I do think she's running for President

Your the one making the positive claim, not him, and so the burden of proof is on your shoulders; she's running for president is a more specific claim than, she's stepped down. Your argument only works if the additional information of a reason is present. However, it doesn't even work then because Obama only quit officially when he became president and the state didn't appear to suffer for it.

she doesn't conform to your beliefs

There is an external reality, and like it or not, the scientific method is the best means of reliably informing ourselves about it; someone who rejects the scientific description of the world for that found in her fringe interpretation of a mistranslated bronze age book, is a lunatic. Though of course she also holds views of morality that will lead to unnecessary suffering, and these are the issues that really divide people.

People should follow their own beliefs as far as they take them; most people have exclusivist beliefs and to follow them as far as possible will lead to conflict. People should not respect beliefs they disagree with. If a person holds to a belief so strongly that they feel pain if the belief is questioned, that is their problem. Respect is a means to the end of the amount of happiness in the world, the only justification for any act I would accept; I can't hold the belief that this is the only justification of action, unless I can disrespect those who will cause less suffering if i disrespect them. Palin will not cause less suffering if i disrespect her, it's not like she reads this post or that it'll change any voter's mind, but my post won't harm anyone and therefore is acceptable.

Liberal respect for all views, in denying all views which do not respect all views, is a sectarian view like any other, though unlike others it pretends to be impartial. It usually stems from not being able to prove moral matters either way; if we can't solve them, it's most honest to reject them all and act in an amoral fashion. If the view is motivated by a desire for tollerance as it appears to be in this case, then the problems of having to respect the intollerant because there is no ad hoc means of exluding them from 'everyone' who's views must be respected, and more importantly because the asumption that tollerance is a good thing is itself highly sectarian. Respect is also a very vague term and doesn't offer us much in the way of guidance.

On a related note, why don't you respect our beliefs? Sarah palin doesn't respect people's beliefs after all.... so is it ok to disrespect people who disrespect other people who disrespect other people's beliefs, but not to disrespect other people who disrespect other people's beliefs?

the more power and responsibility one would assume, the more respect must be earned

As I reject free will, I don't believe in people deserving things because of their moral character or actions; but she may 'deserve' to be respected, as a means to the end of achieving a society with greater happiness, more funding for research, less bans on abortion, less ignoring anthropic global warming, etc. We have a 'duty' to ensure only the most qualified achieve this sort of power, that is to say, those most likely to bring most happiness.

There is no reason why politics should get so personal

If it concerned her ideas, it may be less reasonable to attack her personally for them; though moral beliefs are practically attacks on people in a lot of cases, it's more rational, though often less effective, to attack those beliefs. However, the issue is weather she'd be a good leader, and her personal traits and ideas come into that.

On a related note. Her behaviour and views are, like those of michael jackson, just plain absurd, and can be laughed at freely, even if she's not a 'bad person' for them, especially as the laughter probably won't directly hurt her. She can be hated by those who think her actions and beliefs are dispicable; we've never met her but no one here has met stalin either, we only have, crucially, what parts of them they *want* you to see!
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gtaca2005
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:29 am

You missed a good opportunity reply.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws
____________________________
People make mistakes like this all the time.

Palin tried to say that her state being next to Russia was foreign policy experience....
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Just_Jackie
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Just_Jackie » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:39 am

gtaca2005 wrote:Palin tried to say that her state being next to Russia was foreign policy experience....


Obama didn't know that people in Austria speak German.

The point being neither of them were briefed on something going into a public speaking session and they both made mistakes.

One person is laughed at and called all kinds of names while the other gets a free pass.

BTW I've seen that video, but I didn't feel the need to post it. My intent is not to make Obama look bad. Making fun of someone serves no point. It's just about a minimal amount of human respect and dignity. But for me I have a lot of respect for Obama.
gtaca2005
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:49 am

Just_Jackie wrote:
gtaca2005 wrote:Palin tried to say that her state being next to Russia was foreign policy experience....


Obama didn't know that people in Austria speak German.

The point being neither of them were briefed on something going into a public speaking session and they both made mistakes.

One person is laughed at and called all kinds of names while the other gets a free pass.

BTW I've seen that video, but I didn't feel the need to post it. My intent is not to make Obama look bad. Making fun of someone serves no point. It's just about a minimal amount of human respect and dignity. But for me I have a lot of respect for Obama.

Neither had a lot of experience, I just want to point out that the McCain camp tried to get her to use that as an example, not her. But still, people are going to take this as experience. :roll:

It's not against her. I disagree with probably every thing she believes in, but in electable standards, I'd say she'll be ready in about 10 years, if she stays in politics for experience.

Obama was surprisingly new to the political process, but if you look at the campaign, you can see just how much experience he had from community organizing.
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
Just_Jackie
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Just_Jackie » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:00 am

gtaca2005 wrote:Neither had a lot of experience, I just want to point out that the McCain camp tried to get her to use that as an example, not her.



No, they didn't. That's the thing, no one prepped her for that interview at all. She got up there with an extremely experienced journalist like Couric and, yes she said some extremely stupid things. But, I also think she would have equally been attacked if she wouldn't have given the interview. "Oh Sarah Palin is avoiding giving interviews to the media. I guess she's not ready to be VP."

Now, if she would have been fully prepped and prepared...and then she went out there and had done that...that would have been a completely different story. I just think it's unfair to judge one politician by one interview they were in no way prepared for.

Here it is from the New York Times. This is a fact. I am not digging sympathy for her because I want you to like her. This is a fact.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/06/us/po ... 34;&scp=27

"Ms. Palin, who had prepared for and survived an initial interview with Charles Gibson of ABC News, did not have the time or focus to prepare for Ms. Couric, the McCain advisers said. “She did not say, ‘I will not prepare,’ ” a McCain adviser said. “She just didn’t have a bandwidth to do a mock interview session the way we had prepared before. She was just overloaded.”

I wouldn't want to be judged in that way. I don't think anyone would.
gtaca2005
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:07 am

They didn't prepare her, but you can beat they gave her talking points. That's what I mean.

She said Charlie like a million times in that interview. :lol:

(All I'm saying is, the McCain camp drug her into all of that, and it wasn't fair. But now she has a big following that is pushing her to run in 2012.... That is crazy.)
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
Just_Jackie
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Just_Jackie » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:13 am

gtaca2005 wrote:They didn't prepare her, but you can beat they gave her talking points. That's what I mean.

She said Charlie like a million times in that interview. :lol:

(All I'm saying is, the McCain camp drug her into all of that, and it wasn't fair. But now she has a big following that is pushing her to run in 2012.... That is crazy.)


No, they didn't give her talking points. Did the you read the article at all? See this is what I mean. The article clearly shows that during a time when she was already under a huge amount of pressure, meeting with people from the UN, she was thrown into an interview completely unprepared but still "Well they gave her talking points..."

She's damned if she does and she's damned if she doesn't. She can't win no matter what she does.
gtaca2005
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:20 am

Come on, no matter what any article says, no matter it's source, I can guarantee you they gave her some talking points.....
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
Just_Jackie
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Just_Jackie » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:32 am

gtaca2005 wrote:Come on, no matter what any article says, no matter it's source, I can guarantee you they gave her some talking points.....


I'm sorry but I just think you don't like her so you're hanging onto your preconceived notions.

For as long as I've known you on these boards you've posted that interview several times. That interview has been the bedrock of your reasons for not liking her. That's why you posted it today. Now, I've presented a very reliable source that shows that things are not how you thought they were. Now, the fact that you think she received talking points is the only straw you have left to continue believing that interview happened that way simply because Sarah Palin is stupid.

There are many reasons to legitimately not like her. I know it seems like I like her because I defend her a lot...but I agree with you that she shouldn't be president. I want to be able to have an abortion if I want one and I want all people treated equally under the law...including the rights of all people to marry.

But, everyone, even Sarah Palin, deserves respect.
Pip Tweek
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Pip Tweek » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:37 am

Just_Jackie wrote:
Everyone, even Sarah Palin, deserves respect.


This quote is going to be my new signature.
superiorsavior
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:40 am

Why does everyone deserve respect? And just what do you mean by "respect" anyway?

How can someone watch south park if they really feel this way, considering the amount of things it rips to shreds / disrespects.
Last edited by superiorsavior on Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Just_Jackie
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Just_Jackie » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:42 am

I don't think your sensitive tummy could stomach (pardon the pun) having that as your signature.

But, who knows, I've been wrong before.
superiorsavior
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:46 am

The legitimate reasons to dislike her and her policies are enough to render her a target worthy of disrespect. Respect is a means to the end of producing the greatest happiness for the greatest number, in my view which is the only guide i have to my actions. Respecting some points of view or the people who promote them, will not do as much good in this sense, as ridiculing them to within an inch of their existence. However, the ridicule presented in a forum or chat is not going to harm her, and so unlike ridicule to her face it does not even need a justification.
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gtaca2005
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby gtaca2005 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:48 am

I'm sorry but I just think you don't like her so you're hanging onto your preconceived notions.


Seriously? I spent hella time just now defending her. I blame the McCain camp. :?


For as long as I've known you on these boards you've posted that interview several times.


I don't remember posting more than twice.

That interview has been the bedrock of your reasons for not liking her.


I never said I didn't like here. I just don't agree with anything I've herd her say. Hence, I post my reasons.

Now, I've presented a very reliable source that shows that things are not how you thought they were. Now, the fact that you think she received talking points is the only straw you have left to continue believing that interview happened that way simply because Sarah Palin is stupid.


EVERYONE in a political campaign receives talking points. I would find it very surprising if the VP nominee didn't receive any while they press talkers do.

And I don't think it's because she's stupid. I think I said it here before. I think it is because was under-informed on the issues, got mixed up trying to remember talking points, etc. Stupidity had nothing to do with it.

But I post those because A) They're funny. (Sorry, I'm low I guess...) and B) it shows that being close to Russia is no experience.

There are many reasons to legitimately not like her.

Yes there are. An the interview aren't the reasons.

I know it seems like I like her because I defend her a lot..


No, it just seems like you defend her a lot. :)

But, everyone, even Sarah Palin, deserves respect.


Cliche, but I believe respect is earned.
"It's not Jesus.... It's a portal monster." - SuperiourSavior
Pip Tweek
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Re: It seems Sarah Palin is resigning...

Postby Pip Tweek » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:53 am

Jackie, if there's one thing I've come to accept (and that SP has basically reinforced) it's that nothing is sacred. Humor is humanity's defense against being driven insane. Besides, you can still respect someone and make fun of them.

Nobody's out to genuinely hurt anyone's feelings here; especially at this BBS, the discussion is light and irreverent for amusement's sake. Please try to lighten up a little.

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