> thellama73 wrote :
> I've met many die hard Christians who have never read the Bible and it
> baffles me. How can they take a book as the guide for how to live if they
> don't know what it says?
> Because if they read the Bible, they face the probability of becoming
> atheist. Many people are atheists BECAUSE they've read the Bible. Same
> thing with the Qu'ran.
> It'll open up people's eyes in a much different way than it was intended.
> qharvard wrote:
> 2:191 is out of context and not exact. The [non-believers] part is not
> It's not out of context. The non-believers are who the book was referring
> to. Throughout the Qu'ran, the sole and primary "antagonists" are
> 'non-believers' (i.e. non-Muslims, not just atheists).
Uh actually, it was talking about the pagan Arabs. Who vowed to forcibly kill all Muslims. Muslims are only allowed to fight in self defense.
The most violent surahs deals with the rules of war(ie no killing of innocent non-combatants) or treason. The whole 'kill all the unbelievers' thing was about a violent breaking of a pact.
> So if the scriptures and passages can be twisted and distorted in countless
> ways, why do you base your life around these scriptures? Something that can
> be interpreted in so many ways evidently has no meaning at all.
> There is a starving man in a canoe in the middle of the ocean. Give him a
> fishing net and he'll catch a fish. Give him the Bible or the Qu'ran and
> he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.
I can misquote Richard Dawkins and twist his words around, yet many atheists quote him almost religiously.
Thanks to the muslim guy for a great discussion. I wonder what you think is the solution to the problem of these a**hats that want to kill as many innocent people as they can?
I would just like to point out to triple that some "godless" countries like the ussr back in the day, lead to some very bad things. know your history, dont be blinded by you agenda.
You can't blame atheism for all the wrongdoing that the U.S.S.R. is guilty of. Many of these "bad things" you refer to stem from the fact that the U.S.S.R. established and forced a particular belief system on its people, which leads to a corrupt government. Almost like fascism.
You know Iran does the same thing with its people that the U.S.S.R. did with theirs. Only Iran endorses Islam instead of atheism. Now don't go telling me Iran has its head in the sun. The entire world hates them. At least any part of the world that has any social, economic, or political significance.
But before you go on to say that we here in the States are free to practice whatever, this is all true, but keep in mind that catechism is already a major problem here with regard to the indoctrination of children.
Speaking of religious fights, I might start one on facebook soon. Since they have a way to personal message people so none of my friends from my horror message boards or my coworkers need know about what I say to a certain someone who evidently has an account there..By the way, don't you hate the way everyone on your friend's list knows everything you do on Facebook? Well, anyway, I was on there tonight, someone from high school added me, and guess who is on her friend's list? Remember some of my rants about fundamentalist Christians I went to school with, the ones who I thought were my friends, but evidently only liked me so I would convert..The ring leader of their little cult, is on there. I am so tempted to message him, not say anything mean, just let him know what I have been up to these last 14 years, and mention that I am bi, pagan, and really into the kind of movies and music he found evil. Maybe I'll tell him about our little debates on this board, and my beliefs that people no matter what their beliefs should learn to f*cking get along. Knowing him ( and from what it says on his profile, it doesn't sound like he has changed much), just saying those things will be enough to get him pissed. I seem to remember one day at school, in class, something came up about people's beliefs about the afterlife, and our teacher said she believed that everyone was forgiven and got into Heaven no matter what, and he had a huge debate with her, because he firmly believes everyone who is naughty by his God's standards is going to Hell. That means, according to him, everyone here is going to Hell, even Will, because he had a problem with Catholics too. I thought this guy was my friend, until he started avoiding me cause I wouldn't convert, so I kind of want to tell him off..Should I do it?
> I thought this guy was my friend, until he started avoiding me cause
> I wouldn't convert, so I kind of want to tell him off..Should I do it?
Don't do it. Sometimes when I get angry, I do write something to the person involved. But instead of clicking on SEND, I merely click on CANCEL. Why do I go through the motions of writing something only to click on CANCEL? Because I feel better. I got it all written down, and I feel a sense of relief. At that point, it doesn't matter whether or not I send the message I wrote. Just the exercise of writing it was enough to make me feel better.
If you do click on SEND or POST or WHATEVER, you are just stirring up a hornets nest and starting a flamewar, even though you happen to be right and he is wrong. But by writing it down, I think you'll feel better. And what a feeling it is if you click on CANCEL instead of SUBMIT. Your mind knowns you wrote it. That a*shole doesn't need to know what you wrote. The h*ll with him. The main thing is that you feel good. You don't have to tangle with him. If you must write something, go ahead. But don't send it. You've killed two birds with one stone - you wrote how you felt, yet you didn't send it. Try it. I think you'll like the feeling you'll get by clicking on CANCEL. I know I do
I'm atheist by the way, but very much open to being wrong. Personally think that if a god exists then its about time it came down and said hello, instead of letting fruit loops and paedo's do the talking for him.
> I would just like to point out to triple that some "godless"
> countries like the ussr back in the day, lead to some very bad things. know
> your history, dont be blinded by you agenda.
In the Soviet Union, they tried to replace religion with a bizarre deification of The State. Especially under Stalin. It's similar to what happened in Nazi Germany or what exists today in North Korea. Mao did it to China as well. I don't think it's accurate to describe the USSR as 'atheist' any more than it would be to call any belief system where they don't subscribe to Abrahamic monotheism as 'atheist'. They just made everyone worship Stalin instead of God.
That being said, Soviet Russia is one of the few examples of a nation that engaged in an aggressive foreign policy without the pretense of religion. Most of the wars executed by the Soviet Union were done out of either a desire for more power and influence or out of fear of getting nuked by the west.
Contrast that with George Bush making frequent allusions to his god as America is on the verge of invading Iraq. He couldn't come out and say it, but you could tell he thought he was doing 'god's work' over there. All that "I answer to a higher power" sh*t right before the invasion.
Interestingly, the 'religion of the state' that caused most of the world to view the Russians as 'godless commies' turned most of the conflicts with that nation into 'holy wars.' This is how we in the US added the line "under God" to our pledge of allegiance. Modern jihadism started in Afghanistan as the Muhajadeen attempted to expel the 'non-believers' from their homeland. And America was more than happy to point out that we technically worship the same god and could you guys use a hand fighting the Soviets?
I think the Soviet Union is evidence that it's difficult to sustain a war effort without religion. They did do a lot of losing during the Cold War, didn't they?
You read it! You can't unread it!
> As the OP has not returned, is this thread turning into just another
> general religion thread?
It better not. It's his thread unless he says he's done and lets it go.
And, yeah, I hope Qharvard comes back. Without him, this will become another "lets bitch about how bad religion is" thread. LOL..You know, for the record, I probably have more reasons to bitch than some people here, and I don't condemn all religion in general.
"lets bitch about how bad religion is"
I must find this thread!
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