Same Sex Bill in New York

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Unassumption
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Unassumption » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:15 am

The arc of history bends towards a more open, more tolerant society.

it goes back and forward at different times, but at the moment, and for the forseeable future...I'm glad the wind is blowing my direction
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Ex1lepr0
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:17 am

I'm frustrated that not all people can be open-minded, but at the same time, I respect their beliefs and traditions. It probably won't work this way, but if you show no respect you can expect none in kind.
Can't we all just get along?
Unassumption
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Unassumption » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:24 am

Those traditions don't seem particularly respectful especially when they're enshrined in laws; to respect them means going beyond reciprocation to some degree, depending on how it's practised.

With one side fighting the "culture wars" as a war (of words at least) respect probably isn't going to win the day. I'm not sure how possible it is to really truly think something is evil, and not act to fight it, so if these traditions hold gays (for instance) are evil, I'm unsure how people who actually hold to that could sit back. But most do tolerate it (in the sense mr garrison talked about) so maybe I'm wrong and they just think it's a niggle, not quite evil, though the rhetoric suggests otherwise =/
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Ex1lepr0
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:46 am

True tolerance will never come without understanding both sides.
Can't we all just get along?
BigGuy101
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby BigGuy101 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:01 am

I think it's great that they're now getting the same rights as straight couples.
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Niels0827
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Niels0827 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:01 am

Ex1lepr0 wrote:I'm frustrated that not all people can be open-minded, but at the same time, I respect their beliefs and traditions. It probably won't work this way, but if you show no respect you can expect none in kind.


I know why these bigots believe what they do, but that's different than saying I "understand" it. I have no respect for people like this at all. It's a two-way road, as you said. I don't even think of them as 'human'. Somebody who can be so callous and purely evil does not deserve to belong to the human race.

Everyone in the world has as much control over who they are when they're born as much as they can control the orbital axis of Neptune. These people are telling homosexuals, simply, "we're better than you". That is sick. It's a mental disorder.
Ex1lepr0
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:39 am

Niels0827 wrote:
Ex1lepr0 wrote:I'm frustrated that not all people can be open-minded, but at the same time, I respect their beliefs and traditions. It probably won't work this way, but if you show no respect you can expect none in kind.


I know why these bigots believe what they do, but that's different than saying I "understand" it. I have no respect for people like this at all. It's a two-way road, as you said. I don't even think of them as 'human'. Somebody who can be so callous and purely evil does not deserve to belong to the human race.

Everyone in the world has as much control over who they are when they're born as much as they can control the orbital axis of Neptune. These people are telling homosexuals, simply, "we're better than you". That is sick. It's a mental disorder.


Many times, it seems like the only way this will get fixed is for the old "guard" to die out and take their bigoted opinions with them. What I want to see happen before they're gone is for them to see things from the other side. THAT will be a sign of progress, not if we simply vote out their policies when they are no longer present to defend them. And yes, I know this opinion sounds strange, but I just want there to be understanding, not a pushing of policies on others because we think it's right. That causes too many problems in the world.
Can't we all just get along?
Unassumption
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Unassumption » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:00 pm

If we don't defend our morals, what we believe to be wrong will occur. What's the point in saying we believe X is right, if we don't act according to that belief?
If one side is pushing and you stop pushing, you'll fall over; being on 'the right side of history' isn't natural, it takes effort to suppress the next generation from learning the bad ideas of the last, among other things.
More thoughtful reflective people are unlikely to have the confidence and willingness to lie needed to really spread an idea but more likely to have the right ones; that people who have the right ideas don't or can't push them effectively, is as harmful as people with wrong ones pushing well IMO finding some middle ground between pushing beliefs and reflecting on them / listening to criticism is needed but yet to be found IMO

IF california could get gay marage by consent of it's people, awsome, but it couldn't and had to settle for it being imposed on the State.
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Ex1lepr0
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:51 pm

I propose we agree to disagree. We are on the same side, after all.
Can't we all just get along?
cynthia325
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby cynthia325 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:59 pm

Niels0827 wrote:I know why these bigots believe what they do, but that's different than saying I "understand" it. I have no respect for people like this at all. It's a two-way road, as you said. I don't even think of them as 'human'. Somebody who can be so callous and purely evil does not deserve to belong to the human race.

Everyone in the world has as much control over who they are when they're born as much as they can control the orbital axis of Neptune. These people are telling homosexuals, simply, "we're better than you". That is sick. It's a mental disorder.

Exactly. People who are disgusted by homosexuals disgusts me! They act like they're not human and that there is something "wrong" with them. OMG give me a break! I say if homosexuals or any other person is doing something that isn't physically harming you, then who cares!?

The sh*t of biggots smell just as much as the sh*t of me, the gays, the blacks, the jews, the republicans, the dogs, and the martians!
Ex1lepr0
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:42 pm

The reason there's a divide is because some people don't see two gays or lesbians as love. They see it as sexual immorality. Is that wrong? I don't know, I'm not god. What I do know is that there have always been battles between tradition and progress, and this is one of them. Progress usually wins in the end, though, and as long as people like us are around, it'll stay that way.
Can't we all just get along?
Unassumption
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Re: Same Sex Bill in New York

Postby Unassumption » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:10 pm

Is that wrong? I don't know, I'm not god.
Anyone could apply that to anything; you can't "know" Nambla and anti-inter racial people are wrong, but you know what you think is right or wrong, and if anything is going to determine your actions (being as they are, well, yours).

though the right wing are human, takes going beyond most people's nature to not be hateful and ignorant =/ dehumanizing the opposition isn't a good way of understanding why they do X, and you need to know that to stop them effectively!

as if any of us can. it doesn't matter what we think or feel because we can't do f*ck all about anything lol
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