Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doing..

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Ichben
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:14 am

Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doing..

Postby Ichben » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:47 pm

to obtain these rights brave and noble? What do ya think?

http://www.workers.org/2011/us/support_prisoners_0721/

“The prisoners are progressing rapidly to the organ damaging consequences of dehydration. They are not drinking water and have decompensated rapidly. A few have tried to sip water but are so sick that they are vomiting it back up. Some are in renal failure and have been unable to make urine for 3 days. Some are having measured blood sugars in the 30 range, which can be fatal if not treated.“
Ex1lepr0
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:41 pm

Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:14 pm

Ok, I think that they should have those simple rights, but at the same time, wtf? I've never understood hunger strikes, they must want to make those phone calls bad.
Can't we all just get along?
Ichben
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Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Ichben » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:03 pm

Ex1lepr0 wrote:Ok, I think that they should have those simple rights, but at the same time, wtf? I've never understood hunger strikes, they must want to make those phone calls bad.


You and me both buddy. I think they should have those rights and what they are doing is very brave and very noble. I applaud them for their actions and hope they get what they deserve.
Ex1lepr0
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Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:41 pm

Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:18 pm

Well, they should get their rights, but I'm not sure starving yourself is the best way to do it! You'll get your phone call, but what good will it do if you're dead?

BTW, this may be farewell for a while, man. I hope to see you sometime in the future.
Can't we all just get along?
triplemultiplex
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Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby triplemultiplex » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:02 pm

The prison-industrial complex in this country is something that should bring great shame to our entire nation. We incarcerate a higher per capita percentage of our population than any other country in the world. That includes countries like China and North Korea that we generally think of as oppressive.

The difference is in America, we lock up so many people not for political dissidence, but because there's a buck to be made. The privatization of our prison system is one of the greatest crimes in the world right now. The profit motive provides incentive to maintain draconian drug laws and lock up non-violent offenders at great cost to society both in terms of dollars and the damage caused to society itself.

Combine privatization with politicians trying to look like tough guys on crime and you get a welfare program second in size only to the military. Just watch any political ad for anyone running for an elected judicial post. It's a contest to see who's the bigger coddler of child molesters and rapists. "Vote for my opponent and your entire family WILL get raped."

The result is overcrowded prisons, soaring cost to taxpayers and a complete absence of rehabilitation. Knowing this, I can't blame prisoners for gettin' their Ghandi on like this. They are meal tickets for prison corporations and guard unions.

That's the other insidious thing about the prison industrial complex; the promise of jobs for communities that host prisons. They do provide decent paying jobs for unskilled assholes who flunked out of high school after knocking up their girlfriends and want to become professional bullies, thus expanding on their extensive experience in secondary school.
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Ex1lepr0
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Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:54 pm

^^Well spoken my friend. The other issues of course are the ongoing war on drugs and the three strikes rule. I read earlier this year about a guy who under the three strikes rule got 25 years in prison for stealing a pizza.
Can't we all just get along?
Unassumption
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Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Unassumption » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:22 am

As long as the communication is monitored.

The prison system is based too much on a primitive desire to hurt people we don't like, not something with a goal, like reducing crime. People want to make things unnesicicarilly harsh - to the extent it undermines rehabilitation and increases costs - to fit their emotions. a lot of opposition comes from the heat too. When there are 2 goals that don't work well together like rehab and revenge, the middle ground does NOT work and unfortunately that's where we are for emotional reasons ;(

Just watched a TYT video on prisons in Norway, which seems like proof it's possible to go 'too far' and make them too luxurious but (while it's hard to learn anything from this with so many other factors uncontrolled) it seems to work so it's a case of hormones vs head, and I know which I'd like people to side with on anything else.

I'm not a fan of 'terrorism' (to use a needlessly emotive word) people threatening to do something we don't want unless we do what they want - policies that work and are supported by evidence should be in place not ones the guy with the biggest gun got in. Hunger strikes are a form of 'terrorism' but so is punishment as a deterrence, I suppose the latte might have evidence backing it up though. It's not like the harshness is supported by evidence so a policy bought in by the sword can be ended by it too. Threatening suicide to get what you want annoys me though.

The privatization of our prison system is one of the greatest crimes in the world right now

which is being exported to england somewhat, showing bad policy doesn't nesicarilly die because of competition and can spread like a fire due to human stupidity or the difference between national and policymakers interest. It definitely pushed the UK to ban pot and other drug laws are imposed on the world by the USA.

"Vote for my opponent and your entire family WILL get raped."

Reminds me of TheAmazingAtheist's video on judges; they all want to be seen as tough, what happened to a just judge? People think the harder you push the better you'll get in effect even if evidence says NO. Votes are as bad in public prisons as money is in private ones. wrong incentives EVERYWHERE.

Crime rates in the US did fall in the 90s (when the 3 strikes rule came along) but... even if there was a casual conection, i doubt it's worth it for the rise in prison population, plus "tough on the causes of crime" would probably hurt it more.
AND BY THE WAY, I WIN
Big-Will
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Re: Should these prisoners have rights? Is what they are doi

Postby Big-Will » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:24 am

A voice cries out in the wilderness...

Oh yeah, brave and noble, but ultimately pointless.
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