Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are real

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angeldeb82
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Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are real

Postby angeldeb82 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:44 pm

I think back on the words of Stan Marsh to Mrs. Garrison in "Go God Go": "Well, there could still be a God... Couldn't evolution be the answer to how and not the answer to why?" :)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 22514.html
Still the same as it ever was.
Big-Will
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby Big-Will » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:08 pm

Nothing new to the knowledgeable Catholic, quite the shock to a lot of people.
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VACOOLA
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby VACOOLA » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:05 am

So riddle me this: If one Pope rejects evolution completely and the other one embraces it wholefartedly, which one is spreading the divine truth and which one has been seduced by the devil? Because for a Catholic, no matter how knowlegeable he is, it would be impossible to swallow these two incompatible opinions simultaneously without choking on 'em, unless he has a black belt in doublethink. Or would it?
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby Big-Will » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:18 am

Neither. The Church does not rule on matters of science, not after the Galileo affair, anyway. So one pope can reject it fully, one can accept it fully. Does either position prevent them from going to heaven? No. But the prevailing sentiment of the Church, ever since Darwin, is that evolution has proven worthy of study in Catholic schools. There's a fossil record, and evidence of evolution occurring very quickly right now in some parts of the world, new species, etc. The Church would be unwise to ignore all this and try to reach new generations of believers.

On the other hand, it cannot stop believing that God started it all, and that if God is invested in this world, he would have to take part in evolution somehow.
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agent-FSS
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby agent-FSS » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:51 am

Darwin's theory is not consistent. Either it should be revised or not taken seriously. And by the way Darwin himself wanted to mention God as one of the factors of natural selection, but then changed his mind.
The Big Bang Theory sounds more reasonable, but nobody can say for sure what was up to it and why a big bang happened at all.
Mamont
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby Mamont » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:00 am

agent-FSS wrote:Darwin's theory is not consistent.
Nope. Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection is one of the best scientific theories of all times. It has been proven as a fact over and over by six biology fields independent of one another. Nothing in biology makes sense without it.
agent-FSS wrote:Either it should be revised or not taken seriously.
No, it just needs to be accepted by scientifically illiterate people.
There's not a single evidence against evolution. Not one.
agent-FSS wrote:The Big Bang Theory sounds more reasonable, but nobody can say for sure what was up to it and why a big bang happened at all.
Whether it sounds reasonable is irrelevant. Evidence is all that matters. And evidence are plentiful.
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby agent-FSS » Sun Nov 09, 2014 6:16 pm

Mamont wrote:
agent-FSS wrote:Darwin's theory is not consistent.
Nope. Darwin's theory of evolution through natural selection is one of the best scientific theories of all times. It has been proven as a fact over and over by six biology fields independent of one another. Nothing in biology makes sense without it.
Nobody argues that in nature there is no natural selection. You can find tooth and determine the type of animal, how it is lived, from who originated and in who evolved? Of course I mean the fossils.
Mamont wrote:
agent-FSS wrote:Either it should be revised or not taken seriously.
No, it just needs to be accepted by scientifically illiterate people.
There's not a single evidence against evolution. Not one.
No one argues that all organisms were improved by evolution. And that's what is interesting is that in nature everything is so thought out and so interconnected that there is no escape from question: could all this arise random?

If organisms evolved for a long time, gradually building up the necessary mutations where the intermediate species from which originated this intermediate species, thanks to what originated present species?
Mamont wrote:
agent-FSS wrote:The Big Bang Theory sounds more reasonable, but nobody can say for sure what was up to it and why a big bang happened at all.
Whether it sounds reasonable is irrelevant. Evidence is all that matters. And evidence are plentiful.
Evidence of what? Why it happened? What was the catalyst? Where from appeared original substance?
triplemultiplex
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby triplemultiplex » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:57 pm

agent-FSS wrote: And that's what is interesting is that in nature everything is so thought out and so interconnected that there is no escape from question: could all this arise random?


You have that backwards. Ecosystems are complex and interconnected because of evolution. Evolution is directionless; this means there is no 'end goal' for life forms. They are simply passing on survivable traits. It is a mistake to assume that the way things are is intentional. Natural systems tend toward an equilibrium as extremes are slowly cancelled out over time. So everything settles in to the interconnected complexity we can see today.
agent-FSS wrote:If organisms evolved for a long time, gradually building up the necessary mutations where the intermediate species from which originated this intermediate species, thanks to what originated present species?
The fossil record is growing every single year and filling in more and more 'gaps' between individual species. The pattern is so obvious even a child can see what's going on. Most people who make this argument about 'gaps' do not appreciate how extensive a record we actually have. An example:
1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 14, 15, 16
There are gaps, of course, but it is easy to see what is going on.

Evolution predicts the existence not only of extinct species which later surface in fossils, but predicts the existence of living organisms that are later discovered. This fact is a slam-dunk in favor of evolution. When you make predictions that turn out to be true, your thinking is probably correct.
agent-FSS wrote:Evidence of what? Why it happened? What was the catalyst? Where from appeared original substance?
That's been the really fun part. We may never have a precise answer, but we've got some seriously intriguing ideas base on the chemical makeup and physical conditions of the early oceans. What's amazing is how quickly, relatively speaking, life came to be on this planet. Within a few million years of developing oceans of liquid water, we've got life. That's awesome. I can't wait to find out and learn other cool sh*t on the way to this answer.


Debates over evolution are clouded by doubt merchants who would like people to misunderstand how broad the scientific consensus is about it. By pretending it's still controversial, they further their own agendas. Meanwhile, we're using our understanding of evolution to prevent and cure disease, extend human life and figure out why we as a species do certain things.
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby Mamont » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:13 pm

agent-FSS wrote:If organisms evolved for a long time, gradually building up the necessary mutations where the intermediate species from which originated this intermediate species, thanks to what originated present species?
Every species that ever was, is or will be is intermediate. There is no end goal. There is no prototypical representative of species. And there are no clear boundaries between two species. Boundaries are more or less arbitrary.

Take a husky and a pekingese. They are both members of the same species, yet huskies are more similar to wolves then to pekingeses.
The very concept of species is man made.

I like to use a colour spectrum as an example.
Image
Can you tell me where exactly one colour ends and another begins? Can you pinpoint the exact prototypical nuance of any colour.

RIchar Dawkins explains this very elegantly with his thought experiment Your 185 Millionth Great Grandfather Was a Fish.
agent-FSS wrote:Evidence of what?
That the universe came to be in a point in time 13,8 billion years ago.
agent-FSS wrote:Why it happened? What was the catalyst? Where from appeared original substance?
We have no answers to those questions and probably never will.
JamesPup
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby JamesPup » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:45 pm

I tend to believe in evolution and the Big Bang Theory. It is nice to see the pope accepting things that are controversial with the church. I know evolution happens but I never see it happening. Like do we have evidence of evolution with things that are living. Its all based on fossils and dead evidence. I would find it funny if people started to evolve and other creatures too. What if it happens all at once and doesn’t start with one subject who is different that has kids and so on. What if all new babies of a species just were evolved? I find it hard to believe that just one is born different and then has kids and so on. I would think it happened to many of the species and that is how it works, like a sudden change. It could make for a funny South Park like how everyone started to evolve because of the environment changing or just newborns.

The Big Bang Theory is probably right. It is that everything was one at some point and then it exploded and formed space the way it is and with suns and planets. At least that is what I thought the Big Bang was. Still how did it all get there before the Big Bang? I mean all the mass didn’t create itself and this idea does lead me to believing in a god type of person. Something created all of the rock and such that is now all over the place. How was there a giant mass of planets and everything before it exploded? If there was a god like us I think he would have showed up and would show up today just to remind us about things. I think that if there was some sort of creator that this thing would be giant sized and may be nothing like us humans. It will be amazing if we ever find life somewhere else. Why is only Earth the one with life? What the hell creates life and living things? Maybe just all water has very small life forms and we can’t see them all the time or something like that? I mean chemicals, water, and rock are on most planets so maybe these things can mix together with something and create little bits of life. I would think all life started with like bacterial in water or our seas. So why not on other planets? Maybe it has to be the right temperature? I hope we do find other forms of life even if they are like germs or microscopic size.
What seems to be the officer problem?
rance10
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby rance10 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:54 am

I respect pope's view on evolution and big bang. However, I still believed in what was written in Gen. 1.
Mamont
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Re: Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang Theory are

Postby Mamont » Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:35 pm

JamesPup wrote:I know evolution happens but I never see it happening. Like do we have evidence of evolution with things that are living. Its all based on fossils and dead evidence.
Fossil record is not the only evidence for evolution.

Evolution is hard to observe because it takes many generations to make a visible difference.

However evolution has been observed.

For example, in moths. Peppered moths prior to 19th century were mostly light coloured to blend in with lichen and light coloured tree bark.
During the industrial revolution in the UK soot covered everything and dark coloured moths became prevalent.
The most accepted theory is that this is because of natural selection - light coloured moths were easier to spot by predators, while dark moths were more likely to survive. Over time, light coloured moths became very rare.

Evolution was also observed in microorganisms.
JamesPup wrote:I would find it funny if people started to evolve and other creatures too.
All creatures (or almost all) evolve all the time. It's just impossible to see, because visible changes happen through multiple generations. Sometimes thousands.
JamesPup wrote:What the hell creates life and living things? Maybe just all water has very small life forms and we can’t see them all the time or something like that? I mean chemicals, water, and rock are on most planets so maybe these things can mix together with something and create little bits of life. I would think all life started with like bacterial in water or our seas. So why not on other planets? Maybe it has to be the right temperature?
Science is yet to find out how life came to be. We don't know the answer, but we're pretty damn close.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgQLyqWaCbA
JamesPup wrote: I hope we do find other forms of life even if they are like germs or microscopic size.
Me too. I hope it happens in my life time. Come on NASA, time to visit Europa's liquid ocean underneath the ice.

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