Do you believe in global warming?

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Do you believe in Global Warming?

Yes I do. Everything's getting warmer, from the glaciers around the poles to the Caribbean.
1
50%
Yes I do, but I believe it's man-made, from the technology we use to the increasing world population.
0
No votes
I believe in climate change. Global warming is just the biggest aspect of it, but some winters are colder than they used to be.
1
50%
I don't believe in it. It's just a big scam to shake more money out of us, and the science just doesn't support it.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 2
Drummerboy8411
Posts: 10
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Postby Drummerboy8411 » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:58 pm

Global Warming Is bull s!@# serioulsy the only reason the heat is rising is because we are coming out of the ice age but I can understand If you consider that global warming
PsychoWiLL
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Postby PsychoWiLL » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:28 pm

Sure, it's happening. It may be because of the ozone, or it may be because of garbage and pollution. Or it may be because of a cyclical process in the earths orbit. Maybe it's all just a giant government conspiracy to get you to buy into new fuels, cars, energy sources, while distracting you from different problems.

The sun may dry up the oceans, earth may become unlivable -- dessert like. But, that won't happen for years and years.
If woulds and coulds were wood and oil, everyone would be happy.
Cold Machine
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Postby Cold Machine » Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:48 pm

A website wrote:Some climate sceptics argue that the warming we are now experiencing is simply due to the planet recovering from the Little Ice Age, a period of regionally cold conditions between roughly AD 1350 and 1850. But the key question is why it was colder during the Little Ice Age. And why didn't the climate remain that way, or even get colder still?

The Earth does not have some natural temperature to which it always returns. If it cools, then it must be receiving less heat from the Sun or radiating more into space, or both. If it warms, it must be receiving more heat or retaining more heat.


The same website wrote:The warming after the so-called Little Ice Age may reflect both an increase in solar activity and a redistribution of heat around the planet. In particular, the increase in global temperature in the first half of the 20th century may have been largely due to an increase in solar activity. The continued warming in recent decades, however, cannot be explained by increases in solar radiation alone (see Climate myths: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans).


See there, Drummerboy. Global warming isn't a "thawing out" from the last Ice Age. As the site said, there is no set temperature for the Earth to return to.

Link to the article is here: http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11645
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O'Brien
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Postby O'Brien » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:33 am

I think it's absurd to think that humans are incapable of contributing to global warming. We're the same species that has brought about extinctions, acid rain, massive habitat loss, and various other forms of pollution. Knowing our extraordinary rate of increase at the expense of the rest of the enviroment, it's only natural that temperatures are shooting up at the same time our development does the same and leave more greenhouse gases as a byproduct.
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M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:45 am

O'Brien wrote:I think it's absurd to think that humans are incapable of contributing to global warming. We're the same species that has brought about extinctions, acid rain, massive habitat loss, and various other forms of pollution. Knowing our extraordinary rate of increase at the expense of the rest of the enviroment, it's only natural that temperatures are shooting up at the same time our development does the same and leave more greenhouse gases as a byproduct.


Yeah, exactly. Look at all the vechiles we have on the road every single day that put out fumes into the atmosphere and all the factories and such..Why wouldn't that affect the environment? The idea that we wouldn't have an impact is wishful thinking.
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Kyle the Skeptic
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Postby Kyle the Skeptic » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:32 am

As 3MX said, it's not a matter of belief. It's a scientific fact, backed up with plenty of evidence, therefore it's really a matter of agreement/acceptance versus denial.

So get your car tuned up. Go for a walk instead of driving if you can help it. Turn off the lights and unplug your appliances when you don't need them. Insulate your home and only run the heat / AC when you really need it. But don't turn it into an alarmist scare tactic issue the way terrorism has become.
triplemultiplex
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Postby triplemultiplex » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:49 am

The "we're still warming up from the last ice age" argument conveniently ignores the fact that the current interglacial warm period has lasted twice as long as any previous interglacial period.

You see, scientists can take ice core samples from the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica and analyze the composition of atmospheric gases trapped in tiny bubbles formed at the same time as the ice sample and determine what the climate was like throughout most of the Pliestocene (the last 2 million years).

From this data, they've discovered that the last 2 million years have consisted of long duration ice ages interrupted by relatively brief warm periods where the glaciers retreat. But none of these interglacial periods have lasted as long as the one we are currently in. The only thing different about this interglacial period is human activity.

The cyclical nature of ice ages is the reason why two generations ago, some scientists theorized that Earth was on the verge of another ice age. Based on the recurrance interval of glacial advances, they assumed we were overdue to get colder. Of course this data set didn't factor in the enormous impact humans have had on the planet in the last few centuries. We humans had changed the equation and it took a while to realize and accept that fact.
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Tweeks_Coffee
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Postby Tweeks_Coffee » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:11 am

Do you really think that humans alone can heat up the earth enough to prevent an ice age?

Sure, we're polluting the atmosphere and that pollution only increases with each passing year. Absolutely those gasses can cause heat to build up and cause the Earth to warm up. No doubt that there's a whole in the Ozone that shouldn't be there and was most likely caused by those gasses. It's beyond a reasonable doubt that the Earth is getting hotter all the time.

Let's face facts though, there is a natural cycle and eventually we'll fall into another ice age. I'll openly admit that I was not aware of the data about the time between ice ages being far different now than it was before. Couldn't that just mean that we're overdue, though? Or that the Earth was in a particular spot in it's orbit that made it particularly susceptible to climate change like that? After all, it's a well established fact that the Earth wobbles in it's orbit. Right now we just happen to be in a clear zone. That's why there haven't been any major meteors, we moved out of the asteroid field that bombarded the planet earlier. In reality, we're just living in a small window where there isn't some disaster that wipes out all life. Nobody really knows what's going on or what's going to happen. Trying to back up millenia of history with our limited knowledge of the Earth and what's beyond it is pretty fruitless.

That said; I'm all for the environmentalists and anti-global warming folk. After all, I can't imagine a more noble pursuit than trying to save the planet we live on. At the very least, it's something we should pursue. If it turns out that human induced global warming was fake, than we're no worse for the battle.

O'brien wrote:I think it's absurd to think that humans are incapable of contributing to global warming.


(I don't really mean to single you out or attack you or anything. You just happened to throw out the perfect sentence for me to respond to. Please don't take what follows personally.)

I think it's pretty arrogant for humanity to think that we can have that kind of impact. That's true human nature for you. Believing that we impact everything and can change what's happening. In the end, we're flying around a giant fire on a chunk of rock. It'll all end one day whether we like it or not.

Conclusions (for those that don't want to read my whole post):
Is global warming our fault?: Probably not
Should we do what we can to stop it?: Absolutely
Do I hate Al Gore and other environmentalists?: Nope, I have great respect for them, actually.
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Craig-and-Clyde
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Postby Craig-and-Clyde » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:35 am

Of course there are natural periods of warming and cooling, but those happen over thousands of years. This "warming period" has happened within the last 100 years or so. Its the rate of warming that you need to pay attention to.
I don't think i'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams. And then I always get woken up in the morning by the sound of my own screams. Do you think i'm unhappy?
Tweeks_Coffee
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Postby Tweeks_Coffee » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:50 am

Ahem...

Tweeks_Coffee wrote:Absolutely those gasses can cause heat to build up and cause the Earth to warm up.


Look, I don't really mean to involve myself in a huge debate (Lord knows I'm not on here enough to do that). So, I'll just toss this out there...

Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.6°C (plus or minus 0.2°C) since the late-19th century, and about 0.4°F (0.2 to 0.3°C) over the past 25 years (the period with the most credible data). The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S.) have, in fact, cooled over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Warming, assisted by the record El Niño of 1997-1998, has continued right up to the present, with 2001 being the second warmest year on record after 1998.


Here's the source:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html#Q3

I'm not gonna say that's not significant. After all, that stat alone proves that the Earth, is indeed, getting warmer. I'm just gonna say that 0.6°C isn't going to be averting any ice ages.

EDIT: Oh yeah, you guys should go read that whole page. I only took a cursory glance, but it looks pretty interesting. What can I say, I'm a geek for little factoids like that.
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triplemultiplex
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Postby triplemultiplex » Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:23 pm

[quote="Tweeks_Coffee":06569]I think it's pretty arrogant for humanity to think that we can have that kind of impact. That's true human nature for you. Believing that we impact everything and can change what's happening. In the end, we're flying around a giant fire on a chunk of rock. It'll all end one day whether we like it or not.[/quote:06569]

It's incredibly ignorant to assume the Earth is too large and complex for humans to affect the climate.

The amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is rising. That rise in carbon dioxide is directly attributable to humans burning fossil fuels. And mean global temperature is directly related to the percentage of greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. If humans couldn't effect change on the climate, why would mean global temperature be rising in direct proportion to the amount of carbon dioxide we're adding to the atmosphere?

It's also important to remember we're talking about global climate change, which is not a strict uniform temperature rise across all land masses. Other factors are at work in addition to increasing carbon dioxide levels (latitude, elevation, geography).
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Schantrac
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Postby Schantrac » Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:24 pm

Yes, I do, and I will post a short essay about this. Feel free to read:
(wrote this for my environmental science class last year)

May sound a little weird as it was referring to An Inconvenient Truth, but it all makes sense

In my opinion, I felt this movie contained a great deal of information, and can truly help to open the public’s eyes to this dreadful problem. It is for this reason I believe this movie, or at least the power point presentation used by Al Gore should be presented to all the top leaders in our global economic, political, and world community (including the general public). Global warming IS a reality! This is a problem confirmed by a majority of the scientific community, as well as numerous individuals in the general public. Those who choose not to believe in the facts do this because it is, as cited in the movie, an “inconvenient truth” They do not want to believe this is happening. However inconvenient as this may be, it is still an issue that must be acknowledged. Just like any other problem, it does not go away if you simply ignore it. Those who refuse to acknowledge this must soon open their eyes, like the rest of us, before it is too late. Time is running short, and before we know it, it WILL be too late! My personal stance on this issue is yes it does exist, and it is possibly the biggest threat today’s society has to face. Although it may seem futile to prevent, we can, and must act now to start slowing the effects down. The major problem here, I believe, is that we simply do not believe we currently have the possible means to attempt such a task. For thus reason, we in general are afraid of an extensive amount of money that would need to be put into research to help us “go green” so to speak, and help the welfare of our changing atmosphere. Unfortunately, it is this false idea that prevents true progress. Such people that believe we do not have the means to make a change are usually those with limited time frames (i.e. our US government). These people believe such methods are economically unsound. Another possible fatal view from people is that global warming will affect them in THEIR lifetime, therefore, they should not worry about it. Such thinking is not only extremely selfish, but also completely inaccurate, as new statistics show global warming is projected to have a greater impact than previously thought. This is so because we now take into account the ice melting, which alone adds a new factor in the problem, and also our emission levels rising. Going back to the previous matter of those who do not believe we are currently able to “go green”, it is proven they are not correct in believing this. We currently do have this ability, just currently it is not on a large enough scale. Thus, the money that would need to be spent would be in investing more in sustainable, renewable resources that would at least aid us to stop such a problem from getting worse. If we can change to renewable ways of producing the energy we need, we can finally stop being part of the problem, and can start working towards what can help preserve our future. Such an idea has to be implemented by those who are thinking long term. And, unfortunately, in our political spectrum, as in other institutions and governments, do not think long term, as they are VERY limited on their time in office. It is this short term view that MUST be changed! A truly GLOBAL initiative must be taken if any true progress is to be made, and we must work together to change such a narrow minded view, as well as the short term thinking, if we want to stimulate progress. Our first step is to properly inform everyone of this problem which, thankfully in some respects is being accomplished, then our next step is to try to change the mindset of the political governing institutions across the world. These are the first steps to promoting a change. You might be wondering, this sounds great, but what is a personal contribution a normal citizen can produce? I shall give an example, as it relates to me. I personally will do my part of informing as many as I can about this issue, (let it be noted that since I originally wrote this paper I have made a good start on this) as I do believe, as a citizen of the world, this is a problem in which I need to play my part in solving. I also plan to inspire those with my attitude towards this issue, (Which, again, since originally written I believe I have made a good start on this) and my belief in our ability, as a global society, to help change, persevere, and adapt to our changing world, if we work together. As a whole, we can achieve great success, as this has been proven in the past. The task may seem a bit daunting at the beginning, but with dedication, we can ease into this. It is time to make a difference. The time for action is NOW.

Now, for everyone who thinks what I just said is total crap and does not believe in global warming.. that is fine. I respect your opinion.. and I understand where you are coming from.. but can you argue that it is not at least beneficial to try to IMPROVE the situation? Even if you believe we are not causing any problems.. there is no danger in trying to improve our ways.. because whether or not we are causing problems now, overusing natural resources will eventually catch up to us.. It has been documented that we are running out of oil.. even if you believe this global warming is bullsh*t, there is no harm in trying to improve our ways..
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Craig-and-Clyde
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Postby Craig-and-Clyde » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:05 am

Well said sir
I don't think i'm very happy. I always fall asleep to the sound of my own screams. And then I always get woken up in the morning by the sound of my own screams. Do you think i'm unhappy?
M00ndragon69
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Postby M00ndragon69 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:12 am

Good job on the essay Schan..Looks like you really worked hard on it.

Of course people shouldn't use global warming as a scare tatic ( not that I have actually met anyone online or offline who does that), but people do need to be informed. As KTS said, people can do simple things like walking instead of driving, and unplugging appliances they are not using. Not only are these actions simple, but they also benefit people who do them. But, the problem is alot of people won't get off their lazy asses and do them. Like, why do they have to drive to the store when they live a block away and they aren't getting that many groceries? They could just walk their fat asses over there, and save gas, slightly reduce the amount of fumes they are releasing into the atmosphere, and burn off some of the calories they will be eating later. It isn't that hard.
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gtaca2005
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Postby gtaca2005 » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:25 am

Wow, that was long, but great!
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