south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

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jewish pride
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Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby jewish pride » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:00 am

Aidsburger wrote:If you don't want to read this excessively long post, just read my summary at the bottom of this post:

I've been watching South Park since the beginning of season 2, and I personally think the show has gotten better in recent years. The first couple seasons were filled with toilet humor (Mr. Hanky is a great example of what I'm talking about) and although they were still good and funny, the phenomenal writing and clever parodies of current events weren't really there. Sure some episodes (like episode 1109 - "More Crap") are still based off of toilet humor, but the majority of newer South Park episodes are filled with genius referrences to current pop-culture and politics. The episode "Canada on Strike" is a perfect example of a new South Park episode that parodies a current event (the WGA strike), is written perfectly, and is still funny. Newer South Park episodes are funny in a different way, though. While I will admit that some parts of the plots are strictly for shock value (such as the Youtube fight scene), most of the humor seems like it is designed for a more intelligant audience than the older episodes. The only way to get most of the jokes is to be up to date with whatever is going on in the world.

In fact, the original reason I signed up for this forum in the first place was because I saw some people posting negative reviews of the 12th season opener, and that was one of the top 25 episodes ever, IMO. I know AIDS isn't really a topic to joke about, but Cartman's "HIV positive" joke was funny and showed that even tragic illnesses can be joked about and actually seem funny. And alot of people didn't get that "large doses of concentrated cash" was a referrence to the price of HIV drugs.

And there are still some episodes like the older ones that are more just humor based and are not really politically relevant, such as "Super Fun Time". But I don't really get why most people would prefer those episodes. "Super Fun Time" was a great episode, but it was nowhere near as funny and the episodes that were based off of current events in the news, in pop-culture, or in the world in general (such as "Canada on Strike", "The Jeffersons", and "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson").

Summary of pretty much everything I said:

South Park has not gotten worse, but in fact has evolved from a funny show that relied on characters based off of toilet humor (such as Mr. Hanky) to a vert funny and well written show that is completely relevant to what is going on in pop culture, politics, and just modern day human life in general.


perfectly said dude :)

i liked the earlier seasons too but i think its very obvious that the episodes have gotten smarter in the later seasons, the parodies and the plots are way better

i enjoy toilet humor alright but this development of the show is awesome, i love it so much more this way, the complexity of the parodies they have in the last seasons make a show that i really love

about the 12th season, the joking of HIV didnt surprise me at all, they have made fun of worse stuff imo, that wasnt so shocking, and the whole idea of money being the cure for the desease was just perfect
and canada on strike was brilliant, i had been waiting for a youtube parody and it was even greater than i expected :D
Chap4Pub
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby Chap4Pub » Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:44 am

This show in now way is going down hill.

Its no way close to jumping the shark.

In fact I think its become more refined and almost a science now.

Image
http://www.meatgrinder.tv
CaptainCameron
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:15 pm

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby CaptainCameron » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:09 pm

jewish pride wrote:
Aidsburger wrote:If you don't want to read this excessively long post, just read my summary at the bottom of this post:

I've been watching South Park since the beginning of season 2, and I personally think the show has gotten better in recent years. The first couple seasons were filled with toilet humor (Mr. Hanky is a great example of what I'm talking about) and although they were still good and funny, the phenomenal writing and clever parodies of current events weren't really there. Sure some episodes (like episode 1109 - "More Crap") are still based off of toilet humor, but the majority of newer South Park episodes are filled with genius referrences to current pop-culture and politics. The episode "Canada on Strike" is a perfect example of a new South Park episode that parodies a current event (the WGA strike), is written perfectly, and is still funny. Newer South Park episodes are funny in a different way, though. While I will admit that some parts of the plots are strictly for shock value (such as the Youtube fight scene), most of the humor seems like it is designed for a more intelligant audience than the older episodes. The only way to get most of the jokes is to be up to date with whatever is going on in the world.

In fact, the original reason I signed up for this forum in the first place was because I saw some people posting negative reviews of the 12th season opener, and that was one of the top 25 episodes ever, IMO. I know AIDS isn't really a topic to joke about, but Cartman's "HIV positive" joke was funny and showed that even tragic illnesses can be joked about and actually seem funny. And alot of people didn't get that "large doses of concentrated cash" was a referrence to the price of HIV drugs.

And there are still some episodes like the older ones that are more just humor based and are not really politically relevant, such as "Super Fun Time". But I don't really get why most people would prefer those episodes. "Super Fun Time" was a great episode, but it was nowhere near as funny and the episodes that were based off of current events in the news, in pop-culture, or in the world in general (such as "Canada on Strike", "The Jeffersons", and "With Apologies to Jesse Jackson").

Summary of pretty much everything I said:

South Park has not gotten worse, but in fact has evolved from a funny show that relied on characters based off of toilet humor (such as Mr. Hanky) to a vert funny and well written show that is completely relevant to what is going on in pop culture, politics, and just modern day human life in general.


perfectly said dude :)

i liked the earlier seasons too but i think its very obvious that the episodes have gotten smarter in the later seasons, the parodies and the plots are way better

i enjoy toilet humor alright but this development of the show is awesome, i love it so much more this way, the complexity of the parodies they have in the last seasons make a show that i really love

about the 12th season, the joking of HIV didnt surprise me at all, they have made fun of worse stuff imo, that wasnt so shocking, and the whole idea of money being the cure for the desease was just perfect
and canada on strike was brilliant, i had been waiting for a youtube parody and it was even greater than i expected :D


I liked #1201 and #1204. It was only really #1202 that I think brought the first run down a notch. Luckily, as much s I hated #1202, #1207 I loved even more. :lol:
jewish pride
Posts: 1534
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:11 am

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby jewish pride » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:30 pm

CaptainCameron wrote:I liked #1201 and #1204. It was only really #1202 that I think brought the first run down a notch. Luckily, as much s I hated #1202, #1207 I loved even more. :lol:

i wouldnt be too worried about one lousy or not that great episode, they've had those before, both in early seasons (not without my anus, pip, jackovosaurs) and in later ones (a million little fibbers, stanley's cup)

it happens, they cant always have awesome episodes, and maybe it was the big expectation that made it seem to some like it wasnt a great season, i think we should wait for the other half and re-watch to make the real judgement
pdfsmail
Posts: 2038
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 3:08 pm

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby pdfsmail » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:47 pm

That is a good point... I guess we will have to wait for the rest of the season to make a true judgment. So far i still think it rocks. esp 1203 and 1207 LOL
me=a hybrid of Tweek,Butters,Cartman,&Kyle!

GIVING INTO AN EXTREMIST SHOWS WEAKNESS, AND OPENS A DOOR TO FAILURE THIS WILL NOT APPEASE THEIR THREATS.
CaptainCameron
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:15 pm

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby CaptainCameron » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:34 pm

jewish pride wrote:
CaptainCameron wrote:I liked #1201 and #1204. It was only really #1202 that I think brought the first run down a notch. Luckily, as much s I hated #1202, #1207 I loved even more. :lol:

i wouldnt be too worried about one lousy or not that great episode, they've had those before, both in early seasons (not without my anus, pip, jackovosaurs) and in later ones (a million little fibbers, stanley's cup)

it happens, they cant always have awesome episodes, and maybe it was the big expectation that made it seem to some like it wasnt a great season, i think we should wait for the other half and re-watch to make the real judgement

I'm not worried per se about the fact there are bad episodes. What does worry me is the consistency of it- in seasons 5-7, even if one doesn't love an episode, it is hard to really say any of them were terrible. Same for 8 to a certian extent. The only real problem now is that it is almost a sure bet that you will have a bad episode every year.

In the end, is it a very big deal? Nah. But it's certainly something that if continued may not bode well.
jewish pride
Posts: 1534
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:11 am

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby jewish pride » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:29 am

^ i dont know dude, Here Comes the Neighborhood in season 5 was kinda boring to me, as well as Asspen in season 6, they werent that good episodes imo

season 7 had All About Mormons? which didnt totally convince me but i kind of liked it too, so this to me was the season that had no bad episodes, but i dont think it tells us anything, they had good luck that season and managed to come up with all good episodes

and they still come up with some seriously awesome episodes, i can put up with one not that great per season :)

but i think they are making a good descision in their plan of finishing it at season 15, its for the best so it ends still being totally awesome
CaptainCameron
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:15 pm

Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby CaptainCameron » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:53 pm

jewish pride wrote:^ i dont know dude, Here Comes the Neighborhood in season 5 was kinda boring to me, as well as Asspen in season 6, they werent that good episodes imo

season 7 had All About Mormons? which didnt totally convince me but i kind of liked it too, so this to me was the season that had no bad episodes, but i dont think it tells us anything, they had good luck that season and managed to come up with all good episodes

and they still come up with some seriously awesome episodes, i can put up with one not that great per season :)

but i think they are making a good descision in their plan of finishing it at season 15, its for the best so it ends still being totally awesome

Somewhat agreed on Here Comes The Neighborhood- I don't love it. However, it was one of those 6/10 episodes- not bad, just kinda bland. Asspen I loved, but then again I'm biased and I love 80s movies. :lol:
LawrenceTaylor
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Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby LawrenceTaylor » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:04 pm

#1202 was terrible. Why? First off, shock humor only works if it can walk that fine line between being shocking and being gross. Britney Spears blowing he rhead off was shocking- not funny, not bad. Britney Spears walking around without the head and somehow living was gross and, most of all, really stupid. The VMA scene, even if she had her head on, would have been stupid. Why? Because the VMA itself, with the camera angles chosen and emphasis on sexuality instead of talent, is stupid already and the show wasn't parodying the VMAs, it just did it. Without her head, it became possibly the worst scene of the show in it's history. The point of the episode, while I agreed with it, was heavy handed and the fact that Stan and Kyle went along with it at the end seemed very OOC.


I'll just make one reply, theres waaay to much going on in this thread!

The point of the episode was heavy handed, but thats frankly why I liked it. People more often than not don't allow themselves space for taste or anything subtle. That episode portrayed the dark emptiness of that media lover or media darling lifestyle, and that lifestyle was emphasized because that episode didn't trust the audience to observe anything deep on their own.
Try and think about what else the theme of this episode was, the VMA scene was the escalate the point about how they don't really see what they're doing to her because they only see these vain things ("shes gotten chubby!") as opposed to real humanity (being headless n all). Its only said in passing by a reporter.
I think they were thinking of just having her die, I wouldn't be surprised if Trey mentions it on a commentary, I bet you they tried to make it work that way (I get that sense from how long the silence is at the hospital before Stan says "we just didn't listen...") but seriously, this is an episode where it doesn't matter to me how tacetly they do something. Its a big loud subject, its interesting for them to be big and loud about it. Watch the series finale of EXTRAS if you want the tasteful way of dealing with this issue. This is they're fresh way of doing it. I'd rather them be crude and horrible, this time at least. Its a more distracting ep, for a generation with a dwindling attention span (Hillary saying "and spearchuckers!" dousing a ladybug, squirrels, all these silly things I think are there to better represent this generation) bless em for making their own show shittier to better make a point.
To me, that also helps put in perspective that its not SP that matters most, how well they make their point, its the point itself that matters. Its not an ep your forget, its not a point you forget after that ep. It makes you sick, its like Andy Kaufman, it'll do ya good even if you hate it. That takes serious balls to do.

The VMA scene made me sick... but I think I loved it because of that! I've done my hardest to get out of the American Dream disney raised me on and explore all the little f*cked up facets of things.

And Stan and Kyle went along with it more because they didn't have a choice. They were being attacked at all sides by Paparrazi. And at the beginning I mean... 100,000 dollars, thats enough motivation wouldn't you think? They feel absolutely horrid afterwards anyway. I think the boys consciences are changing to represent kids today a little better... kids have gotten even more selfish. And the boys attitude is also, its just a picture. Its a game, to see if they're ballsy enough to take the picture "don't be a little pussy" Stan says to butters.
They're used to having a "push around celebrities" attitude, because thats what they're presented.
The whole episodes designed to make us a little sick. Maybe I can't say I like it for that, but I do. I'm wacky though.

Oh wait... Stan and Kyle went along with it at the end... they did it reluctantly. Its just a little joke. Its the way of bringing things back together at the end again. And its funny! Because the Miley prophecy is being foretold... they're proving how big a problem all of this really is.
CaptainCameron
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Re: south park on the decline? [new seasons SUCK DICK!]

Postby CaptainCameron » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:17 am

LawrenceTaylor wrote:
#1202 was terrible. Why? First off, shock humor only works if it can walk that fine line between being shocking and being gross. Britney Spears blowing he rhead off was shocking- not funny, not bad. Britney Spears walking around without the head and somehow living was gross and, most of all, really stupid. The VMA scene, even if she had her head on, would have been stupid. Why? Because the VMA itself, with the camera angles chosen and emphasis on sexuality instead of talent, is stupid already and the show wasn't parodying the VMAs, it just did it. Without her head, it became possibly the worst scene of the show in it's history. The point of the episode, while I agreed with it, was heavy handed and the fact that Stan and Kyle went along with it at the end seemed very OOC.


I'll just make one reply, theres waaay to much going on in this thread!

The point of the episode was heavy handed, but thats frankly why I liked it. People more often than not don't allow themselves space for taste or anything subtle. That episode portrayed the dark emptiness of that media lover or media darling lifestyle, and that lifestyle was emphasized because that episode didn't trust the audience to observe anything deep on their own.
Try and think about what else the theme of this episode was, the VMA scene was the escalate the point about how they don't really see what they're doing to her because they only see these vain things ("shes gotten chubby!") as opposed to real humanity (being headless n all).


Its only said in passing by a reporter.
I think they were thinking of just having her die, I wouldn't be surprised if Trey mentions it on a commentary, I bet you they tried to make it work that way (I get that sense from how long the silence is at the hospital before Stan says "we just didn't listen...")
but seriously, this is an episode where it doesn't matter to me how tacetly they do something. Its a big loud subject, its interesting for them to be big and loud about it. Watch the series finale of EXTRAS if you want the tasteful way of dealing with this issue. This is they're fresh way of doing it. I'd rather them be crude and horrible, this time at least.
Its a more distracting ep, for a generation with a dwindling attention span (Hillary saying "and spearchuckers!" dousing a ladybug, squirrels, all these silly things I think are there to better represent this generation) bless em for making their own show shittier to better make a point.
To me, that also helps put in perspective that its not SP that matters most, how well they make their point, its the point itself that matters. Its not an ep your forget, its not a point you forget after that ep. It makes you sick, its like Andy Kaufman, it'll do ya good even if you hate it. That takes serious balls to do.
The VMA scene made me sick... but I think I loved it because of that! I've done my hardest to get out of the American Dream disney raised me on and explore all the little f*cked up facets of things.

Oh wait... Stan and Kyle went along with it at the end... they did it reluctantly.
Its just a little joke. Its the way of bringing things back together at the end again. And its funny! Because the Miley prophecy is being foretold... they're proving how big a problem all of this really is.

(I'll space and bold so you know what I'm responding to. :wink: )
1- I understood all of that, but the issues are thus:
A- If you basically reach for the lowest form- heavy handed, in this case- of plot and humor, you alienate people who want to think.
B- Even if you get past that, understanding why someone chose to do something does not equate to liking it. I knew why they did this and that before, but it was such a poor decision that it fell apart. There are many ways of making any point in that episode, and they chose, in my view, the worst way everytime to make the point. Gross+Heavy Handed+Being The Main Humor+Being The Main Plot= Failure.

2- I hope so.

3- But here is the problem- being loud can work if you're bing loud and smart. This episode was not loud and smart. It was loud and very, very dumb. Just because you have a point does not mean the episode is smart- it means you have a point. A ten-year old come up with a solution to the housing crisis by just saying the right idea- but hre's still a dumbass if he can't say why it is that way. Comedy wise, you can have an excellent point, but if the way you communicate it is ineffective, more or less stupid and, at best, borderline funny, then it isn't a good episode.

4- So if this generation liked being interrupted every five seconds by images of anal sex in their comedy shows, should South Park do that and would you bless them for it? The idea is to create the best episodes and make them as funny as possible, not sit there and dumb down the show to pander to ADHD people.

5- The only reason I remember the ep- I haven't bothered watching it for a long time- is because of how awful it was. The point? There is no way to forget any point made in the show, and a point made well will last a lot longer than one made poorly. That is the main problem- #1202 has a good point, but the point is basically communicated through someone screaming directly into your ear while you're at a death metak concert and you're being hit in the face with a pile of sh*t. The point is not communicated well, and the only reason you remember it is because of how you can't get the taste of sh*t out of your mouth. So, the point is good but not communicated well, and someone can have the bets point ever but if they're speaking in tongues...well, lost in translation and pointless is it.

6- Really don't see what your defense of the scene is since you basically agreed with me. Shock and grossout is not my thing, if basically a piece of sh*t(#1202) is what I wanted, I might as well be a productive uncle and change my niece's diaper.

7- Reluctantly or not, once they found out about the conspiracy they folded REALLY easily. It was OOC.

8- It's only funny if you're into the episode and can get over how OOC it is. Even if you can get over how OOC it is, you have to care about Miley Cyrus, which I don't. And I don't care about Spears. Or MTV. Or J-Lo. Or any other major celebrity. Just because South Park rips on celebrities one weeks and chastises society for their slow damnation of celebrity the next does not mean I have to think the episodes with those points are worth the time Trey Parker spent writing it.

One problem we have is this: To me, it seems your point is that the since the point of the episode is good, it works. You seem to be saying that since the point is good and unusual, it's great that it was loud and disturbing.

My point? Loud and disturbing would be fine if Trey Parker was an upstart writer, the show didn't have good characters, and the plot wasn't basically a parody, and if the show hasn't shown it can tackle unusual points with class, great humor, and strong plots.

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