Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nEmore

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ShaneHaughey
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:36 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby ShaneHaughey » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:53 pm

81397 wrote:Personally, i like the new direction SP has taken.

For one thing, to be taken seriously, the show had to start doing some sociopolitical satire. You can't write fifteen seasons worth of pure toilet humor, as funny as it was, and expect for a show to make it. Nor can you keep retaining the "classic" vibe of a show throughout it's run or you'll just lose too much interest.

The world has changed a LOT since 1997. I think SP has adapted very well to the changing times and I enjoy most of their takes on polarizing issues. Of course I am not in stitches every episode, but the show makes me think just a little more about what's going on around me and that's why I keep watching.

Almost 14 seasons to date. 15 is coming. None of them are perfect. Every season has episodes I like and some I don't. Never once have I got the impression that Matt and Trey have simply "lost interest".



I put in italics what I am responding to, in order:
1- The show can do sociopolitical satire and humor. No one argues that. However, when the humor isn't very good, the satire is stale and pointless.
2- It is a comedy. If it is funny, it will make it.
3- The show lost over half of its audience at the start of S2, yet continued being what it was. As for losing interest in terms of writing, Trey Parker almost quit at the start of Season 9.
4- And if this were a talk radio program or a course in politics, that would matter. However much we can agree with their stances, if the humor isn't there, the episode sucks. I wouldn't want to watch Stan and Kyle talking to each other about economics for twenty minutes, regardless of whether I agree with what they say.
5- So you somewhat admit that as a comedy, it can fail. Yet you watch because it brings you awareness of societal and political issues.
Which is cool. That's you. But what about those of us who already know about issue A or B and know the well-known arguments? And what if we couldn't care less about the musical fad that was the same as the seven previous musical fads? Or constant parodies of movies and shows?

The funny thing is that there is little divide between us. The difference is perspective. To me, comedy and characterization come well ahead of message and plot, To others, that may not be the case.
That's how it's down here on the farm!
Notorious J.A.P
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:07 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby Notorious J.A.P » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:24 pm

I've been a fan of South Park since I was a HS sophmore in 98. When I was in college I did several presentations and speeches about Matt & Trey, South Park, it's cultural impact and what it has done for free speech. M&T are two of my favorite writers and SP has had a good 10 yrs of amazing writing. The show is one of my all time favorites. With that in mind I've seen SP decline rapidly the last 3 or 4 seasons. More misses then hits and sadly season 14 has been nothing but misses in my humble opinion. It seems like M&T are deliberately not putting out their best work as a way to stick it to comedy central for censoring them last year. I can't say I blame them. I read last year that they wanted to walk away from the show after that whole controversy but they can't because they still have contractual obligations for one more season. Still it's clear that their hearts just aren't in it anymore. The whole mysterion arc was boring and lame from the get go. Last week was the first time ever that I wanted to turn off the episode 15 mins into it, thats how terrible it was. I'm a huge Lovecraft fan and was glad to see the Cthulu and the Necronomicon references but it just didn't fit. SP used to have clever farces with a hint of satire that made you laugh hysterically and think at the same time. These days they've taken to pop culture parodies of kids stuff like Twilight, Jonas bros, guitar hero, movies and whatever other latest tween fads that come along. The prob is that a year after these shows air, the humor is irrelevant and you can barely remember who or what they were making fun of. I expect unimaginative story lines and pop culture jokes from the Simpsons or Family Guy, not South Park! I hope that the brilliant writing and humor will come back to the show, but I'm not holding my breath. Actually tonight's episode will probably be the last SP that I watch(unless of course it turns out to be hysterical). As an older fan of the show I know I am not alone in thinking that SP might be on it's way out. I also know that a lot of younger, teen fans love the new direction of the show. It just doesn't seem like its for me anymore and it doesn't seem to care. I just hope that the show ends if it continues in this direction. Frankly I think M&T should give up the show and make 90min movies every year or two(like futurama did). That way they don't have to worry about television senors, they can spend more time developing the writing and give us raw, unadulterated SP the way it was always intended and the way we love it!
Tweeeeek
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:48 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby Tweeeeek » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:39 pm

I suppose it depends on the person. If you don't think the humour is up to scratch, you're unlikely to appreciate the ep's message, however contemporaneous/relevant the subject matter may be. If South Park became Family Guy, I wouldn't watch it anymore, because of the lack of substance it would thereof have as a show. That said, if South Park lost all its satire and funnies then I probably would stop watching it too. Imo, balance is key. If a show consists of cutaway sequences and no plot, it becomes tedious, no matter how funny the gags might be. Plot, structure, and character development are all important to sustaining my interest, just as much so as humour is. If I can laugh, feel connected to the characters, and remain engaged (or at least interested enough to continue watching for 20 mins) in the plot, then the writers are doing all I could ask of them.
I love Tweek. He's twitchy. I also love Kenny and Towelie.
81397
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:33 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby 81397 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:01 pm

ShaneHaughey wrote:5- So you somewhat admit that as a comedy, it can fail. Yet you watch because it brings you awareness of societal and political issues.
Which is cool. That's you. But what about those of us who already know about issue A or B and know the well-known arguments? And what if we couldn't care less about the musical fad that was the same as the seven previous musical fads? Or constant parodies of movies and shows?


I don't watch to stay aware, usually I am aware of the topic and enjoy another perspective. I don't watch South Park for the news. I should have worded that better.

The general opinion in this thread seems to be that South Park was at its best when you first started watching it.

That's ripped and reworded from a quote about MAD magazine, but apply it to South Park and it's the same concept.
- 81397
ShaneHaughey
Posts: 11192
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:36 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:43 am

81397 wrote:
ShaneHaughey wrote:5- So you somewhat admit that as a comedy, it can fail. Yet you watch because it brings you awareness of societal and political issues.
Which is cool. That's you. But what about those of us who already know about issue A or B and know the well-known arguments? And what if we couldn't care less about the musical fad that was the same as the seven previous musical fads? Or constant parodies of movies and shows?


I don't watch to stay aware, usually I am aware of the topic and enjoy another perspective. I don't watch South Park for the news. I should have worded that better.

The general opinion in this thread seems to be that South Park was at its best when you first started watching it.

That's ripped and reworded from a quote about MAD magazine, but apply it to South Park and it's the same concept.


Some people believe that. I started watching at the start and didn't think it was at peak form until 5-7.
That's how it's down here on the farm!
Churlesque
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:07 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby Churlesque » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:43 am

Nostalgia is a potent wine. Drink sparingly, internet peers.
Omipon
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:08 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby Omipon » Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:20 pm

Hahaha churlesque yur so right.

And just like someone else had said, the original poster of this thread,your words are simply subjective.
Their all your opinions and arent real facts or anything.

Everyone as their own thoughts and opinions,but to say the creators lost ALL interests is just a low blow :l



btw
I still find myself cracking up at the new episodes!
bahbow1000
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:46 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby bahbow1000 » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:25 pm

first off everyone has their own opinions, and that is just what all of this is. so remember that when you rip someone for expressing theirs and in the same breath vomit up yours. silly little children. I will safely assume that most of the people that think this season in particular is good (specificaly the coon episodes) are people that were either very young when the show came out or not even born yet. It feels like there is a generational gap here in the opinion of where the show went down hill. If you grew up with this show, meaning you were like 7 when it first aired, you have that bond with it. The same way most people will defend to the death that most things they liked as a kid are golden. Even though when you go back and rewatch them as adults you realize they kinda sucked. I understand that. But when you have been a fan since the beginning and you were almost an adult when it came out, like I was, you tend to actualy get the jokes, not just laugh because its outrageous and there is bright lights and flashing colors. Im extatic for anyone that still loves this show to death. Im more saddened by the fact that it seems like they are going to end it on a string of below par episodes then going out with a bang. It might be time to walk away. But I still have some faith left. We have an entire new season to look forward to. A chance for redemption. There have been too many good seasons (with the occasional bad) for me to have lost all hope. Any of you that claim to be "harcore fans from the beginning" should all agree with me on this one thought. If you are thinking of walking away now you really are not "hardcore fans" because there have been a small handfull of other bad seasons. You would have just walked away then dont you think? If your loyalty to this show is that fragile you would not be here now to say you quit. Im unhappy with this season overall as well, but suck it up. And on one final note: The Coon episodes suck chefs chocolate salty balls!
F*** New Jersey
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:13 am

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby F*** New Jersey » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:45 pm

Notorious J.A.P wrote:I've been a fan of South Park since I was a HS sophmore in 98. When I was in college I did several presentations and speeches about Matt & Trey, South Park, it's cultural impact and what it has done for free speech. M&T are two of my favorite writers and SP has had a good 10 yrs of amazing writing. The show is one of my all time favorites. With that in mind I've seen SP decline rapidly the last 3 or 4 seasons. More misses then hits and sadly season 14 has been nothing but misses in my humble opinion. It seems like M&T are deliberately not putting out their best work as a way to stick it to comedy central for censoring them last year. I can't say I blame them. I read last year that they wanted to walk away from the show after that whole controversy but they can't because they still have contractual obligations for one more season. Still it's clear that their hearts just aren't in it anymore. The whole mysterion arc was boring and lame from the get go. Last week was the first time ever that I wanted to turn off the episode 15 mins into it, thats how terrible it was. I'm a huge Lovecraft fan and was glad to see the Cthulu and the Necronomicon references but it just didn't fit. SP used to have clever farces with a hint of satire that made you laugh hysterically and think at the same time. These days they've taken to pop culture parodies of kids stuff like Twilight, Jonas bros, guitar hero, movies and whatever other latest tween fads that come along. The prob is that a year after these shows air, the humor is irrelevant and you can barely remember who or what they were making fun of. I expect unimaginative story lines and pop culture jokes from the Simpsons or Family Guy, not South Park! I hope that the brilliant writing and humor will come back to the show, but I'm not holding my breath. Actually tonight's episode will probably be the last SP that I watch(unless of course it turns out to be hysterical). As an older fan of the show I know I am not alone in thinking that SP might be on it's way out. I also know that a lot of younger, teen fans love the new direction of the show. It just doesn't seem like its for me anymore and it doesn't seem to care. I just hope that the show ends if it continues in this direction. Frankly I think M&T should give up the show and make 90min movies every year or two(like futurama did). That way they don't have to worry about television senors, they can spend more time developing the writing and give us raw, unadulterated SP the way it was always intended and the way we love it!

Great analysis! I can't agree more.

If the "Book of Mormon" musical next year proves to be successful, I suppose that's the direction M&T will be heading, which will mean the end of South Park on S15.

I wish they made a musical on Scientology. IMO, Mormons are not the best target to make fun of - South Park already said pretty much everything about them.
ralphy
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:26 am

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby ralphy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:35 am

It's just a matter of opinions.

I really love last seasons. And I love the Coon's saga. The best part is that they keep surprising me, as a fan many times I think where are they going, but then they turn back and change the direction of the plot.

I really don't see any sign of boredom or laziness but I still see a lot of creativity in there and a lot of music (as SP always had) too.

They keep saying things that only SP have the courage to say.
neobludragon
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby neobludragon » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:58 pm

This is my opinion on why MNT aren't interested anymore.

The 2nd and 3rd episode of the coon saga made me lose all respect.

The 2nd one when kenny found out that the reason why he dies every episode is cause his parents are cult members. I mean, he didn't die every episode. the first 4 seasons he did. Well I don't remember when he stopped dying but still. I believe by giving a reason as to why he dies and comes back to life just ruined the whole serious. I can't even laugh at the older episodes now. Also they kept using that stupid commericial line from nike "what should i do?"

The 3rd episode in the coon saga, cartman makes cthulu his bitch and makes him kill justin beiber... I mean seriously, what about the people that don't care bout justin beiber? The only time I even hear bout him is on every youtube video in the comment section. I don't listen to radio so I never hear his songs play. Its that simple, don't listen to radio.

I also hated the fact that cartmen turned into the biggest pussy ever. He use to be racist, a complete douche, and didn't respect anyone. Seeing the coon saga makes me really question south park.

Oh and who the f*ck is bradly? I've never seen him before in my entire life til the coon saga. I'm sure I could mention other things that are completely wrong with this season, but the coon saga is enough.

I will continue to watch, I still have some hope, but not alot lately. I use to laugh, I cried, now i'm just being bored to death of these new episodes.

I do hope MNT have time to read this thread, possibly even my post.
neobludragon
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby neobludragon » Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:08 pm

Ok, So I looked in the character log about bradley, theres no way the bradley from season 11 is the same bradley as season 14. Completely different voices, different hair. I mean yes he could've cut his hair, but the voice. I do not think that mint berry crunch is bradley.
KennyMcAmazing
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:42 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby KennyMcAmazing » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:29 pm

I don't think they've lost interest in SP at all.

I for one still laugh at every episode. I think that they are all great, old and new alike. There are some nuances in the type of comedy, but it's all great IMO. A show that is this popular has the security to take the liberty of exploring some new forms of comedy, new ideas, which I think SP continually does. If anything, I would think Matt and Trey would want to continue South Park so they could continue to explore the many directions they can take South Park down.

South Park is like a car. MnT can decide to drive it down one path, and then just as easily reverse, and drive down another path. I like that they explore many different subjects and have different types of comedy within South Park - they can always return and go back to new ideas, if they want, and just as easily never return to them again.

South Park is still great, and has always been great. And I hope that it will continue to be great.
I LOVE KENNY! Second favorite characters: Kyle and Butters
beefylogs
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:51 pm

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby beefylogs » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:56 pm

Some people on here do have a point: One of the things that made South Park great season 1-10 is that it WAS always changing. You could probably do a study on writing structure of what makes season three different than season five, season five then season seven and onward. It's unfortunate now that they've reached a formula that simply works, and maybe for that reason alone the show should stop. I don't need South Park as a supplement to the news or whatever is culturally popular. I hope they don't renew.
-beef
kieranic
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:33 am

Re: Why renew? Matt and Trey are obviously not interested nE

Postby kieranic » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:08 am

Brendle wrote:No. South Park wasn't at its peak in the "first four seasons." It cerainly didn't stop being good after 7 seasons either.

The first season just wasn't funny, pure and simple. To children, it was amusing, sure. But there's nothing that appeals to adults...nothing to distract us from all the toilet humor.

It was mainly there to define the rules that would be in place for the rest of the series (Kenny dying every episode...the catchphrases...Chef singing...Terrence and Phillip...Stan vomiting...)

They had about 5 different plots going on at once in each ep, and they just didn't know how to write back then. Understandable.

Now, the second season drastically improved but still wasn't all that good, with the exception of the Terrence and Phillip episode and Prehistoric Ice Man. There were some great ideas sprinkled throughout the episodes but again, the writing structure was poor.

The first half of season 3 suffered mainly due to the fact that they were writing the movie at the same time. They still made a great episode in Sexual Harassment Panda. After the movie was out, they really hit their stride, and the second half of Season 3 kicked ass.

Then seasons 4-7, they were really starting to become razor-sharp with their satire. Then "The Year From Hell," 2004...saw a fairly lacklustre season 8. Season 9 came along and it wasn't much to write home about either...

Then came a glorious season 10, followed by the best season they've ever done: Season 11. Season 11 has about 6-7 classic episodes, more than any other season. Everything they touched turned to gold in this season.

Then everything started to go downhill at 12.


That my friend, is completely personal opinion ;)
Why Season 14 is no doubt the weakest season yet, I still found it to have some funny and memorable episodes.

The style of comedy has changed. Go back a few years before I watched South Park and I would have pissed my pants laughing at Season 1. However, I started watching South Park a year ago when Season 2 was airing (re runs) and as the shows humor slowly changed, I guess mine did too. I no longer find Season 1 as funny, but I still do at certain moments. It's more a... "nostalgia" season and I think I have gone off track so I should stop.

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