SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

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ShaneHaughey
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SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:31 am

This is a Save Our Stan thread, detailing why I do not believe that the events of #1507 signal that we are near the end.

Stan Marsh, written out. Trey and Matt make their feelings regarding the production, schedule, and lethargy of the program well known. The episode is in many ways cynical and depressing. With all of these accepted facts, it is easy to see why some have come to the conclusion that this is all a sign of their weariness with the show and their desire to end the show. This is not correct, or at the very least is a held belief and not fact.

They are not cynical, mean-spirited, depressing people. They are, in many ways, the opposite of all that. The episode in question is out of character and is likely a result of other, more drastic issues than them being tired of the series and willing it to end. They have discussed a movie to end the series, and even the television end is not likely to be a depressing, cynical experience. It will more likely be, at worst, bittersweet- which is entirely within their character.

They are also artists who have taken great pride in their work. They have always worked their asses off and demand more of themselves than than the most hardcore fan does. As such, this theory that they would in some ways sabotage their own work so as to get the show canceled so it would end makes little to no sense. They could not possibly 'live' with themselves if they did so. Even episodes that they dislike are usually very good, and their dislike often comes from Trey's sense of perfection, coupled with the short time frame of the series production schedule, combining. Never have they half-assed an episode, and never does a true artist sabotage his/her work to accomplish that which they could accomlish anyway.

This leads into the next point, and that being that depending who you believe, there are only seven episodes left. If there are only seven left, then this major change in the series is pointless and does not have artistic merit since we will never see its fruits. It would make no sense from their angle as well to shake things up with little time left, especially if we are to believe they don't want to continue or that they are tired. And why torpedo your work when you are near the end and right before a big break? Logically, it makes little sense. According to other reports, they signed a new contract through season 17. If they have, then writing Stan out of the show does in many ways have a heavy negative impact and it makes the rest of the show little more than a high-wire act that has no successful conclusion. So I believe that the timing of this move means that it is not close to the end, and that if I am right, Stan is central to its survival.

One factor we can all agree on is that they were outrageously tired. South Park is a tense, quick production schedule that is mentally draining, yet for eight years they have spent their 'breaks' often working on other projects. That is fine- Team America and The Book of Mormon deserve their praise- but it means that their creative energy has been sapped and spent for years. Working their asses off on fumes, you are looking a decision borne out of a creative effort that had been strung along too much- if it is not a two-parter. Either way, you are not looking at a decision based out of hate or cynicism, but almost a desparate sense of exhaustion. They need rest and for the first time in years, they will have it. With that rest, they will be renewed creatively.

They have stated before that they hate working on the show, and you sure as hell can't blame them for saying it. Seven weeks basically away from family, wound up over a project, shooting from the hip and flying from the seats of their pants, they are required to pour immense mental energy into the show. It is something you hate when you do it due to the intense work...and, as they have said before, pine for it when you are away from it. South Park is still a love-hate deal with them as it allows them to spout off on events as well as a connection with the show. The issue, and one that I believe they will eventually have to deal with, is the production of the show is intense and draining due to their own decisions. Their 'hate', therefore, is preventable.

This is not to say that the show is definitely going to continue, or that they aren't prepping in ways for an end of some sort. However, those that know that Matt Stone and Trey Parker are artistic, non-cynical, tirelessly hard working when they are still human, and have a love-hate affair where the hate can be solved, should recognize that what we saw in #1507 is not likely to be a signal of the end. In many ways, it could signal the start of a bright new phase of the show, one where they realize that their characters are rich in development and use character arcs to develop plots and characters and are therefore able to focus on scenes and dialogue to produce humor that will halp revitalize the show.

Of course, for the show to be successful, Stan will have to be a part of it.

Save Our Stan- Save The Show!
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Unassumption
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Unassumption » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:19 am

A desire for change in the show seems to have been evidenced, if not demonstrated, by the recent episodes. Given their short-term planning on the show I wouldn't like to say what will happen next, but I doubt they'd end things so soon after removing or modifying a major character. Even if it's the largest, this isn't the first major show shake-up, so I'll go with the S6 precedent of them trying something to see how it works. If they reverse it it'll be because they don't like how it worked out.

The show always toed the tightrope between idealism and cynicism tonally, I doubt they'll fall off for the finale. Their contract is all the evidence I need this isn't the last episode, given speculation is all the other side has so far. No one has anything on weather it will be renewed, so it's best to leave discussion to if it should be. While I'd like an ending movie they've said things in the past they didn't go onto do, I'm unsure how serious they are on that issue, given more recent experiences with film from them, and they could start plans for it if they do make one after the show ends. As you said the 7 episodes left thing makes no sense given this change (unless it's an 7 part finale, unlikely as hell) but I doubt they'd put that in there and then pretend it didn't happen next season like they did with Kenny.

Kyle seemed the only one OOC in 1517, abandoning Stan and cozening up with Cartman. If anyone became cynical it'd be Stan. The divorce seemed natural (staying together for the show like some do for the kids) maybe the effects of all the sh*t he's seen in previous episodes are finally being allowed to catch up with Stan too? He's always seen through what others think is awesome though he's courageously defended a few causes in the past that's almost always led to failure. That's best kept to the Stan thread so I'll stop here, but being OOC doesn't mean they wouldn't do it even if it is.

They get restless with the show staying in one form too long, this seems an attempt on their part to liven the writing experience up for them. Totally agree with you that the episode if anything signals a switch away from parodies of films they didn't watch and whatever some random celebrity did this week, back to the characters themselves; even if i don't like where the characters go i'd look forward to the camera focusing back on them.

I don't know what would catalyse good wtiting for them, suddenly removing main characters hasn't worked out for other shows (x-files, 2 pints of lager, stargate, sliders, etc) but I don't know how their creative minds work; a short rest for Stan might be good for him, or allow the other characters to evolve independently and then them to meet up slightly different people when he returns? Even if he doesn't stay cynical the parents being divorced (one staying in SP one not maybe?) would change his life in ways we could see on the show. I'd like to see how this new stan behaves, certainly don't want him to join pip and barbradey in characters put on a bus.
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dusty506
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby dusty506 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:07 am

Unassumption wrote:I don't know what would catalyse good wtiting for them, suddenly removing main characters hasn't worked out for other shows (x-files, 2 pints of lager, stargate, sliders, etc) but I don't know how their creative minds work; a short rest for Stan might be good for him, or allow the other characters to evolve independently and then them to meet up slightly different people when he returns? Even if he doesn't stay cynical the parents being divorced (one staying in SP one not maybe?) would change his life in ways we could see on the show. I'd like to see how this new stan behaves, certainly don't want him to join pipand barbradey in characters put on a bus.

He got killed last season in episode 201 lol...so ya... definately hope Mecha-Streisand doesnt step on him
Ex1lepr0
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:29 am

Isn't this what I've been saying all along? They've done sh*t like this before, why is everyone so damn concerned now? Everything will be resolved in the end, and the status quo will be restored. I don't know how, but they will. Hell, they find ways to bring people back from the dead for god's sake!

Shane, I appreciate and understand that you feel so passionate about this, and I have in no way meant to try and put you down, and if I did, I apologize. But I always feel like the show will bounce back, and I'll have a happy ending to look forward to in October.

Anyway, that's all I have to say, peace out, and don't lick doorknobs!
Can't we all just get along?
whatwouldwedo W/o SP
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby whatwouldwedo W/o SP » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:34 am

im basciclly restating whatshane wrote.
i think/hope that this is a new phase of the shoe in which charactors develop and there the writing becomes fresher
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ShaneHaughey
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:37 am

Ex1lepr0 wrote:Isn't this what I've been saying all along? They've done sh*t like this before, why is everyone so damn concerned now? Everything will be resolved in the end, and the status quo will be restored. I don't know how, but they will. Hell, they find ways to bring people back from the dead for god's sake!

Shane, I appreciate and understand that you feel so passionate about this, and I have in no way meant to try and put you down, and if I did, I apologize. But I always feel like the show will bounce back, and I'll have a happy ending to look forward to in October.

Anyway, that's all I have to say, peace out, and don't lick doorknobs!

No need to apologize. The reason many are upset is more so how it was handled along with the uncertainty than anything else. I have faith that the correct decision will be made and as I have said before, the respect I have for Matt and Trey is staggering. But I consider Stan such a vital required cog in the machine that the fact that there is even a slight possibility that the current situation stands demands an intelligent dialogue among the fans and a unified message to the creators(even if it is never heard).
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Ex1lepr0
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Ex1lepr0 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:41 am

^I agree Stan is important, however, they are all important in their own way. It's like organs making up a larger person, each part is vital, some more so than others. However, if you lose one of them, the body no longer functions right.
Can't we all just get along?
ShaneHaughey
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:46 am

Ex1lepr0 wrote:^I agree Stan is important, however, they are all important in their own way. It's like organs making up a larger person, each part is vital, some more so than others. However, if you lose one of them, the body no longer functions right.

Agreed, though some parts(like Kenny) are less vital than others. Stan, Kyle, and Cartman are the characters that need to be in the show for it to have a shot.
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whatwouldwedo W/o SP
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby whatwouldwedo W/o SP » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:53 am

o im not sure about that. kenny and cartman are the faces of the show the icons. i mean befor i watched SP i knew who cartmen who Cartman was and Kenny was. Kenny and
cartman supply pop culture for the non hardcore viewers.
but i agree if one was least important it would be kenny. :unhoodedkenny:
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ShaneHaughey
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:56 am

whatwouldwedo W/o SP wrote:o im not sure about that. kenny and cartman are the faces of the show the icons. i mean befor i watched SP i knew who cartmen who Cartman was and Kenny was. Kenny and
cartman supply pop culture for the non hardcore viewers.
but i agree if one was least important it would be kenny. :unhoodedkenny:

Kenny is vital...just less vital. His impact on Season Six was the biggest of any character ever, and it was accomplished how such developments should be. However, it was accomplished due to the maner of his departure. Less vital, but still very vital. And the 'faces' of the show are usually not the most vital parts of the machine.
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CCCPkiller
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby CCCPkiller » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:59 am

ShaneHaughey wrote:
Ex1lepr0 wrote:^I agree Stan is important, however, they are all important in their own way. It's like organs making up a larger person, each part is vital, some more so than others. However, if you lose one of them, the body no longer functions right.

Agreed, though some parts(like Kenny) are less vital than others. Stan, Kyle, and Cartman are the characters that need to be in the show for it to have a shot.



i personaly think if kenny didnt have that damned hood on the whole time, kenny could be more.....erm....important...
other than that stan, kyle, cartman are the main characters, kenny is kind of like a sub-main character, with butters being a small amount more important. Without stan it will not function correctly.
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Unassumption
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Unassumption » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:00 am

Cartman is the engine of more plot lines than most yet underwent more evolution than anyone else, for better or worse. Change on a large scale always jeopardises things but I love the show for taking risks. Taking the 'strait guy' out of the show altogether might not be possible and Kyle has sailed away from that role, so permanent removal could collapse things, as it did in other shows; but seeing what the show could do with a temporary Stan holiday might not be too bad, could even highlight why he's needed like Kyle moving away for that one episode did to Cartman.
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ShaneHaughey
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:02 am

Unassumption wrote:Cartman is the engine of more plot lines than most yet underwent more evolution than anyone else, for better or worse. Change on a large scale always jeopardises things but I love the show for taking risks. Taking the 'strait guy' out of the show altogether might not be possible and Kyle has sailed away from that role, so permanent removal could collapse things, as it did in other shows; but seeing what the show could do with a temporary Stan holiday might not be too bad, could even highlight why he's needed like Kyle moving away for that one episode did to Cartman.


Cartman is the Kramer of the show. He is the flashy parts of the car.
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Unassumption
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Unassumption » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:43 am

This conversation can finally die now and we can focus on weather this is good and permanent development for stan / if stan will be back next episode gone for a while or for good and if he should. Still room to speculate for a while. Hope every n00b sees it so the threads stop coming out about it 'ending' now, or in 7 episodes. That the show is continuing makes what will happen to Stan SLIGHTLY less vague - there's time to experement without him for a while then bring him back.

You need the vilain as much as the hero or you have no conflict and no story to tell. Vilains tend to push the story and heroes resolve it. Cartman is the vilain. Kyle and Stan and to a lesser extent butters are all heros. I think Cartman's role has less redundancy than theirs although Stan is by far the best 'strait man' role for the comedy and there's no redundancy there from what I can see. That said I'd like to see how the show would function without him for a while, not forever mind. What would the other characters do without him making sh*t happen for them to deal with? A rolling boulder can play that role it doesn't make him good characterwise but still an "engine"Doesn't take away from what i meant even if he's not that central a chacter as Stan other SIMILARLY central characters have been modified a LOT over the course of the show and it didn't kill replaced and who could replace them? we can change Stan or experement without him for a while but not destroy him forever IMO
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Big-Will
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Re: SOS- Why #1507 Doesn't Signal The End

Postby Big-Will » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:40 am

If you're gonna post more SOS threads, I'm going to lock the old ones. Jeez.
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