Trump and the state of the show

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JVM
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Trump and the state of the show

Postby JVM » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:23 am

Sure, they joked about Bush or Obama sometimes, but that's it. No kindergarden level butthurt that spans the entire term.
How could it, this isn't some kind of prank, it's the current direction. But, for what it's worth, Season 22 has been "passable to quite decent", so maybe there can still be some creativity when they try hard enough.
My recent turn of cynicism here is because I believe this is simply not the case, and that the previous season is exactly why. My argument for years was that if Trey and Matt pulled back and focused on character work a bit, and less on satire, the show would improve, but S22 simply shifted focus from open-and-obvious politics to other contemporary, social issues. We still saw the show bring back the timeless Mr. Hankey character to make contemporary jokes about how unfair they feel Roseanne Barr was treated, with visual nods to Brett Kavanaugh, that's where all of this Tegridy Farms nonsense really began, and we still had the Cereal episodes, in which the main boys are irrelevant to the proceedings, as is Satan when he is killed off, while the rest of the two-episode timeframe is much more nakedly political jokes about Al Gore than even the first "ManBearPig" episode had contained, ad Detective Yates, of all people, being the one to learn a lesson. Simply avoiding the most obvious political figure did not eliminate politics or current events from the show.

To me, last season was what shattered the premise South Park could improve by stepping back from politics; the social commentary, whether it happens to be about the President or something else, is still ripped from the headlines and still overshadows the characters' meaningful development.
Over a decade ago they ridiculed how the terrorists have captured the american imagination. That sht was actually creative, a legendary trilogy.
I'm not sure that was the intended satire of the "Imaginationland" trilogy, but I am completely open if someone has a compelling argument that it was parodying the representation of terrorists in fiction as antagonists. That'd make it a lot smarter. Also, I found the whole trilogy kind of bland personally. Too many scenes of random characters we don't know or care about at the Pentagon and too much emphasis on Cartman's balls to the point it stopped being funny for me.

Did you know 'Bojack Horseman' actually aired last season after SP? I thought it was a lot better than I expected, The character drama and development are handled really well, and it's a much smarter show than even a lot of the most praised bits suggest, imo; people really overlook the subtlety in favor of the obvious, 'relateable' moments. I do think it could use a hair more comedy at times though. Good comparison nonetheless.
South Park is a platform for Matt and Trey's social commentary and satire; there is no canon and these characters only serve as tools for self-expression. Don't get attached.
Big-Will
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Trump and the state of the show

Postby Big-Will » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:59 am

Wirxaw wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm
Guys, it may be off-topic, but if you want quality characters, plot and drama - just watch BoJack Horseman. It's already ending, so it won't really take a slice off this decades-old franchise. But it started right around the time that South Park died - with Season 19, when the new Cold War began and someone up there began censoring creativity and paying for political messages nonstop.
The new Cold War?
As Season 19 was in Fall 2015, Trump had already announced his candidacy, and the show tracked his ascendancy through Mr. Garrison. Matt and Trey wondered what it would be like for someone like Mr. Garrison to run for President, and Donald Trump fit that bill … well, perfect in ideology, and that's all that mattered. Garrison isn't married and doesn't have kids, but he's as xenophobic as Trump and just as vulgar. They didn't expect Garrison to become President and force them to recast him. They could have had him lose while Trump won, but that would have been a copout after having him pursue the Presidency for two seasons.
Wirxaw wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm
Looking at the preview of the next episode - clearly nothing is changing. How could it, this isn't some kind of prank, it's the current direction. But, for what it's worth, Season 23 has been "passable to quite decent", so maybe there can still be some creativity when they try hard enough. For now it's been 6 episodes that basically literally waste your time. Maybe they can turn it around with what's left of this season. I really hoped that when they dropped the nazist "F*** the China" - it would be developed into something... But, nope, looks like that was just their opinion, nothing else to expect.
You expected something deeper? They've only ever said they put on air what they, in their opinion, find funny. If other people find it funny, great. If not, they have plenty of other cartoons and shows to choose from. There's the clicker, change the channel.
Wirxaw wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm
I just... no matter who is actually behind the scenes of all this farce, I can't believe Matt and Trey allow all this to be their legacy, to spoil the name of one of the greatest shows in history. South Park was about the "boys" and their adventures. It wasn't about 'murica, it wasn't about politics, and it sure as hell wasn't about someone who was contemporarily found a suitable puppet for the american politics. Sure, they joked about Bush or Obama sometimes, but that's it. No kindergarden level butthurt that spans the entire term.
The show has covered politics since at least 2000, especially in election years.
The first three seasons saw plenty of jabs at Bill Clinton, especially his womanizing (with Cartman's mom, no less!)
2000 - "Trapper Keeper," when hanging chads determined the electoral vote, which determined Dubya as President. And that episode was set in - get this - a kindergarten. :D
2001 - "Osama Bin Laden Has Farty Pants," which aired after 9/11. 2001 was also the year Matt and Trey made That's My bush!, which aired in the Spring, and just spoofed Dubya's first year as President.
2004 - "Douche and Turd," which was a Get Out The Vote episode. Bush won, as was expected, so there was nothing to react to. The Douche and Turd theme returned in 2016 when Hillary and Trump were the two evil candidates to choose from.
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Big-Will
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Re: Trump and the state of the show

Postby Big-Will » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:03 am

Wirxaw wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm
Over a decade ago they ridiculed how the terrorists have captured the american imagination. That sht was actually creative, a legendary trilogy. Key words - "legendary" "trilogy". Well, what has now captured the american imagination? Russians? Nope, nobody cares anymore. Chinese? Yeah, looks like that.
2007 - The Imaginationland Trilogy had nothing political about it except Al Gore, and he was all about climate change by then, not looking for political office. Terrorism? We were still in Iraq at the time, 9/11 was still fresh on our minds. Nine years later and after the deaths of Saddam Hussein (under Bush, 2006) and Osama bin Laden (under Obama, 2011), and the War in Iraq ended (2011) we can rest easy.
2008 - "About last Night" had Obama winning, played as a crime caper. The episode would have aired the same way if McCain had become President, with crowd reactions changing accordingly.
2012 - "Obama wins." This one was the same as the 2004 episode, but since they did the Turd and Douche business already, they didn't want to the it... then. They had to wait for a real Douche and Turd to show up, and that came in 2016.
Wirxaw wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:44 pm
Trump? Seriously, if Matt and Trey would just do Imaginationland V2.0, as cliche and bad as it could get - at least it would be a tribute and something 'member-able. Because it may soon be too late. I mean, if he gets reelected... then it's not going to be imagination anymore...
He'll be reelected. We're pretty confident about that. It's why some of us call for his impeachment. We know the Senate will never convict him, so we want to tell him we disapprove of his behavior enough to want him out of office. The Republicans wanted this in 1999, when Clinton was impeached, but the Senate did not convict him. The show didn't touch this because it was still new, and Matt and Trey didn't touch politics until the following year.

We're wondering why the Republicans - the Whites - are still so butthurt, even though their guy sits in the Oval Office and won't be convicted and removed from it. They can count on Trump winning by a landslide, but they'll never be as happy as Democrats were when Clinton was acquitted. They can't be, not in such a polarized, politically-charged society.
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triplemultiplex
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Re: Trump and the state of the show

Postby triplemultiplex » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:27 pm

The attack on the Imaginationland I see as reference to America's justification for invading of Iraq because of what was imagined could happen. The Bush regime imagined some wacko scenarios where Saddam Hussein A. had chemical weapons and B. gave them to Islamist terrorist to use against America. Thus, they had to prevent this made-up threat and manufactured enough justification to dupe all the right-wing chickenhawks into approving a war. A terrorist attack on Imaginationland means America can't imagine bullsh*t reasons for starting wars. That's why I find it funny and secretly genius.
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