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NotAFanBoy
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Postby NotAFanBoy » Thu May 04, 2006 7:59 pm

No. He NORMALLY would have been more concerned about the consequences of killing his mother. He's NORMALLY worried only about getting caught or getting in trouble. That his conscience is suddenly winning him over is what makes him broken, in that it is not the norm for him. In the case of Cartman, he is BROKEN when he listens to his conscience and is NORMAL when he's his old self, "broken" and "normal" in this case being used to describe what, for Cartman specifically, is abnormal and normal behavior, respectivel


Yes, HIS conscience. HIS conscience. Not training. But HIS conscience. Obviously, aside from the spelling, you don't know the difference between conscious and conscience.

Cartman's mother wanted to help her son, she didn't really want to control him but she wanted him to behave. She's a whore. She's a piece of sh*t she's not a normal mother. She only wanted what she wanted from him, but at the end she realize she CANT control him, because he's going to do the opposite of whatever she tells him to do. He's CARTMAN.

So, the dog trainer tells her to be "dominant" and control cartman. Cartman responds to her attempts of controlling him by playing on her emotions. Remember, Ms. Cartman is a WHORE. WHORES need people to pay attention to them, even if it means giving people whatever they want. But she doesn't give in to cartman's "mooooom" anymore.

You would think at first cartman is broken, but he realizes that he doesn't want to be controlled and dominated by anyone as he is in the bathroom brushing his teeth. He then plots to kill his mother.

Cartman goes to his friend's house to persuade them to kill his mother. When they refuse cartman says he will do it himself.

The events leading up to the point where he realizes that HE is in control of his destiny all add up: Cartman realizes it is his choice. He's not worried about getting tapped on the neck because if he kills his mother her control of him ends. Cartman "breaks" himself because he realizes that if he kills his mother, that he would be controlling her and would make him a hypocrite. So he chooses to put the knife down, and then goes through the crazy tv-personality breakdown.

The next morning he made himself breakfast. He's studying.

But his mother is a WHORE. She knows that she can't really control cartman because he has a mind of his own, so as cartman is about to go to make his bed, she CHOOSES to gives in to cartman and get him KFC and megarangers.

So you see, cartman isn't asserting his "authoritah" over his mother, he's letting his mother make the choice on her own. He didn't play on her emotions at the end, she CHOSE to ask cartman to go with her to KFC and the toy stoy. Cartman is simply taking advantage of this.
nojo
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Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:51 am

Postby nojo » Thu May 04, 2006 8:00 pm

Killahertz9 wrote:("Size counts: A celebration of the erection")

Well, since Notty is 6-foot-7, I'm sure he has us all beat.

Me, I'm just a scrawny 6-2, and the runt of the family.
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JDG128
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:50 pm

Postby JDG128 » Thu May 04, 2006 8:01 pm

I don't wanna reply to this in the Spoilers/New Episode discussion board where this was posted. I think it's best to keep this together in one place for now, so I will reply here.

NotAFanBoy wrote:Cartman chose to not kill his mother because he realized that the world doesn't revolve around him. He made the choice to realize that himself. He wasn't "reformed". He came back at the end.


Doesn't mean he wasn't reformed. Reformation needn't be permanent. While it lasts, it can still be classified as genuine reformation. Just because a person relapses back into an addiction doesn't mean they hadn't overcome it for a time. Genuinness doesn't necessitate total permanence. Only reason it didn't stick was because Lianne backed down out of weakness.

NotAFanBoy wrote:He's generally a little bastard. But that's because he's a f*cking CHILD.


Not ALL children are little bastards. The children who aren't RAISED properly are little bastards.

THIS is your problem, NAFB. You reject the notion that external factors can have an appreciable effect on anything, that they can matter. You just believe everything and anything a person is or does or says or believes is entirely independent from their surroundings, upbringing, or other people in their lives. I'll say it again: People and their decisions and beliefs do not arise in a vacuum.
NotAFanBoy
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:39 am

Postby NotAFanBoy » Thu May 04, 2006 8:01 pm

aristottlesdeathwish wrote:Why cant the show not have secret meanings of zionist control and just be funny? I mean theres just enough evidence for that conclusion as the conspiracy theory one.


No there isn't. You may think so, but that doesn't make you right.
nojo
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:51 am

Postby nojo » Thu May 04, 2006 8:03 pm

NotAFanBoy wrote:Cartman goes to his friend's house to persuade them to kill his mother. When they refuse cartman says he will do it himself.

And blame Token for it.
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NotAFanBoy
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Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:39 am

Postby NotAFanBoy » Thu May 04, 2006 8:05 pm

You just believe everything and anything a person is or does or says or believes is entirely independent from their surroundings, upbringing, or other people in their lives. I'll say it again: People and their decisions and beliefs do not arise in a vacuum.


You're wrong. I never said that. Lots of people let outside influence change the way they do things. But this is wrong. How are you ever supposed to know what's really right from wrong if you depend on someone else to think for you?

Decisions are based on AWARENESS. Conscious, and conscience. YOUR consciousness dictates what you will do. Copying other people is what MONKEYS do.
Killahertz9
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Postby Killahertz9 » Thu May 04, 2006 8:05 pm

Killahertz9 wrote:Image
Image
nojo
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Postby nojo » Thu May 04, 2006 8:09 pm

JDG128 wrote:I don't wanna reply to this in the Spoilers/New Episode discussion board where this was posted.

Whoa, Notty's in an episode thread? Have they ever locked a sticky?
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nojo
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Postby nojo » Thu May 04, 2006 8:12 pm

Don't overplay your hand, Killa.
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JDG128
Posts: 282
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Postby JDG128 » Thu May 04, 2006 8:27 pm

NotAFanBoy wrote:
No. He NORMALLY would have been more concerned about the consequences of killing his mother. He's NORMALLY worried only about getting caught or getting in trouble. That his conscience is suddenly winning him over is what makes him broken, in that it is not the norm for him. In the case of Cartman, he is BROKEN when he listens to his conscience and is NORMAL when he's his old self, "broken" and "normal" in this case being used to describe what, for Cartman specifically, is abnormal and normal behavior, respectivel


Yes, HIS conscience. HIS conscience. Not training. But HIS conscience. Obviously, aside from the spelling, you don't know the difference between conscious and conscience.


You are selectively ignoring what I am saying, and you are doing it because you dismiss the notion of external factors having any important effect on anything. HE made a decision, based on what HIS conscience told him to do, but HIS conscience only told him that he's not the center of the universe because that knowledge was instilled in him by the treatment he received from his mother under the Dog Whisperer. HIS PERSONAL DECISION was made based on EXTERNALLY DERIVED KNOWLEDGE, without which he would NOT have MADE that personal decision. Just because the decision was his to make doesn't mean its being made was not dependent on something external to Cartman himself.

The decision to cover your mouth when you cough is yours to make, but you only make that decision when you learn that failing to do so can spread germs. Therefore the decision is yours, but it is not independent; it is dependent on you being taught to do so.

Likewise, your beliefs about Zionist Jews did not come to life in your head without some sort of external catalyst. Who you are and what you believe can be traced back to something other than your brain, or someone other than yourself, as can your denial of this statement. And this one. And this one, and so on...

NotAFanBoy wrote:Cartman's mother wanted to help her son, she didn't really want to control him but she wanted him to behave. She's a whore. She's a piece of sh*t she's not a normal mother. She only wanted what she wanted from him, but at the end she realize she CANT control him, because he's going to do the opposite of whatever she tells him to do. He's CARTMAN.


She's a whore because she wants control over her son? It's her responsibility to raise her son properly! No kid is gonna raise HIMSELF properly; Cartman is proof of that. For all we know, YOU'RE proof of that. She LEARNED damn well that she CAN control her son; she WAS controlling him. But just as the Dog Whisperer's regimen is what discouraged Cartman from being a little sh*t, the Dog Whisperer's company was also a reinforcement for Lianne to keep doing what she was doing. Cesar's company was positive reinforcement for Lianne to be stern; she loses that reinforcement, thereby allowing Cartman to relapse.

NotAFanBoy wrote:So, the dog trainer tells her to be "dominant" and control cartman. Cartman responds to her attempts of controlling him by playing on her emotions. Remember, Ms. Cartman is a WHORE. WHORES need people to pay attention to them, even if it means giving people whatever they want. But she doesn't give in to cartman's "mooooom" anymore.


This is your old black-and-white viewpoint again. Wanting attention doesn't make one a whore; what makes one a whore is how far they're willing to go to GET the attention they want. Personally, I don't think Ms. Cartman's so much a whore as a slut. Her sexual easiness and her neediness are two different things, possibly intertwined at times, but not one in the same.

You would think at first cartman is broken, but he realizes that he doesn't want to be controlled and dominated by anyone as he is in the bathroom brushing his teeth. He then plots to kill his mother.


No, he IS broken. And he realizes this. He wants to fix it, by killing his mother. But in the time between the initial realization and the time he shows up with the knife and paper towel, his conditioning has strengthened his conscience to the point where it wins out and kicks Cartman's ass.

So you see, cartman isn't asserting his "authoritah" over his mother, he's letting his mother make the choice on her own. He didn't play on her emotions at the end, she CHOSE to ask cartman to go with her to KFC and the toy stoy. Cartman is simply taking advantage of this.


No one said he was asserting his authority over his mother. If he was asserting his authority, it would mean he wasn't broken. But he is broken. That his good behavior was genuine is what made him broken. Cartman was not consciously taking advantage of his mother's weakness at the end. It is simply implied that she will weakly allow him to slide back into his old ways. Had Lianne kept up the stern mothering, Cartman would have remained genuinely polite and well-behaved indefinitely, until something else came along to change him back to normal.
Last edited by JDG128 on Thu May 04, 2006 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
JDG128
Posts: 282
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:50 pm

Postby JDG128 » Thu May 04, 2006 8:29 pm

nojo wrote:
JDG128 wrote:I don't wanna reply to this in the Spoilers/New Episode discussion board where this was posted.

Whoa, Notty's in an episode thread? Have they ever locked a sticky?


That's precisely why I tried to divert it back to here.
Killahertz9
Posts: 2809
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 9:46 pm

Postby Killahertz9 » Thu May 04, 2006 8:38 pm

nojo wrote:Don't overplay your hand, Killa.


You don't want any of this....so shut you f*cking ass and go back to sucking each other off.
Image
NotAFanBoy
Posts: 621
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:39 am

Postby NotAFanBoy » Thu May 04, 2006 8:45 pm

JDG128 wrote:
NotAFanBoy wrote:
No. He NORMALLY would have been more concerned about the consequences of killing his mother. He's NORMALLY worried only about getting caught or getting in trouble. That his conscience is suddenly winning him over is what makes him broken, in that it is not the norm for him. In the case of Cartman, he is BROKEN when he listens to his conscience and is NORMAL when he's his old self, "broken" and "normal" in this case being used to describe what, for Cartman specifically, is abnormal and normal behavior, respectivel


Yes, HIS conscience. HIS conscience. Not training. But HIS conscience. Obviously, aside from the spelling, you don't know the difference between conscious and conscience.


You are selectively ignoring what I am saying, and you are doing it because you dismiss the notion of external factors having any important effect on anything. HE made a decision, based on what HIS conscience told him to do, but HIS conscience only told him that he's not the center of the universe because that knowledge was instilled in him by the treatment he received from his mother under the Dog Whisperer. HIS PERSONAL DECISION was made based on EXTERNALLY DERIVED KNOWLEDGE, without which he would NOT have MADE that personal decision. Just because the decision was his to make doesn't mean its being made was not dependent on something external to Cartman himself.

The decision to cover your mouth when you cough is yours to make, but you only make that decision when you learn that failing to do so can spread germs. Therefore the decision is yours, but it is not independent; it is dependent on you being taught to do so.

Likewise, your beliefs about Zionist Jews did not come to life in your head without some sort of external catalyst. Who you are and what you believe can be traced back to something other than your brain, or someone other than yourself, as can your denial of this statement. And this one. And this one, and so on...

NotAFanBoy wrote:Cartman's mother wanted to help her son, she didn't really want to control him but she wanted him to behave. She's a whore. She's a piece of sh*t she's not a normal mother. She only wanted what she wanted from him, but at the end she realize she CANT control him, because he's going to do the opposite of whatever she tells him to do. He's CARTMAN.


She's a whore because she wants control over her son? It's her responsibility to raise her son properly! No kid is gonna raise HIMSELF properly; Cartman is proof of that. For all we know, YOU'RE proof of that. She LEARNED damn well that she CAN control her son; she WAS controlling him. But just as the Dog Whisperer's regimen is what discouraged Cartman from being a little sh*t, the Dog Whisperer's company was also a reinforcement for Lianne to keep doing what she was doing. Cesar's company was positive reinforcement for Lianne to be stern; she loses that reinforcement, thereby allowing Cartman to relapse.

NotAFanBoy wrote:So, the dog trainer tells her to be "dominant" and control cartman. Cartman responds to her attempts of controlling him by playing on her emotions. Remember, Ms. Cartman is a WHORE. WHORES need people to pay attention to them, even if it means giving people whatever they want. But she doesn't give in to cartman's "mooooom" anymore.


This is your old black-and-white viewpoint again. Wanting attention doesn't make one a whore; what makes one a whore is how far they're willing to go to GET the attention they want. Personally, I don't think Ms. Cartman's so much a whore as a slut. Her sexual easiness and her neediness are two different things, possibly intertwined at times, but not one in the same.

You would think at first cartman is broken, but he realizes that he doesn't want to be controlled and dominated by anyone as he is in the bathroom brushing his teeth. He then plots to kill his mother.


No, he IS broken. And he realizes this. He wants to fix it, by killing his mother. But in the time between the initial realization and the time he shows up with the knife and paper towel, his conditioning has strengthened his conscience to the point where it wins out and kicks Cartman's ass.

So you see, cartman isn't asserting his "authoritah" over his mother, he's letting his mother make the choice on her own. He didn't play on her emotions at the end, she CHOSE to ask cartman to go with her to KFC and the toy stoy. Cartman is simply taking advantage of this.


No one said he was asserting his authority over his mother. If he was asserting his authority, it would mean he wasn't broken. But he is broken. That his good behavior was genuine is what made him broken. Cartman was not consciously taking advantage of his mother's weakness at the end. It is simply implied that she will weakly allow him to slide back into his old ways. Had Lianne kept up the stern mothering, Cartman would have remained genuinely polite and well-behaved indefinitely, until something else came along to change him back to normal.


No dumbass. When you are broken you are broken. It's like being in the military. You may think you're there for fun and awards but you will soon realise that the military isn't about you. You have no other choice but to accept the possibility that you will die when you go to war and there is nothing you can do about it, or you can do what jimi hendrix did and masturbate in front of your superior to get discharged.

Cartman isn't broken you moron. He STILL wants things to go back the way they were. So he tests his mother at the end by pretending to "conform". He knows that she doesn't want to control him, and he doesn't want to control his mother. So he puts on an act for her and lets her decide what to make of it.

Cartman can obviously be self-sufficient, as he was ready for his relationship with his mother to change at the end by making himself breakfast and studying for school.

Ms. Cartman wanted to screw the mexican guy. He's the "dominant" male and she wanted to be abused by him. When she realizes that he was only doing there for the show and not to be intimate with Ms. Cartman, she turns to cartman for the abuse. It's because she's a whore and she chooses to be.

Cartman let his mother decide what she really wanted at the end. She chose to remain a whore. He didn't pressure his mother into giving him KFC at the end. She chose to because she's a whore and wants to be abused by cartman.

That's what whores want. They want to be taken advantage of.
nojo
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 8:51 am

Postby nojo » Thu May 04, 2006 8:47 pm

Killahertz9 wrote:You don't want any of this....so shut you f*cking ass and go back to sucking each other off.

I didn't realize Tourette's was contagious.
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Stovepipe_Jam
Posts: 4611
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:20 am

Postby Stovepipe_Jam » Thu May 04, 2006 8:49 pm

crabpeople22 just sent me a PM saying his IQ is higher than mine. Go figure. What a spammer.

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