Love or Hate President Bush?

[HellStrykeXL]

First, do any of you have one real goddamn reason for hating the Commander-in-Chief?! It seems that virtually all of you are just hating the president just becuase you b*!@hes want to; not one of you can point out any specific policies that made you hate him. And for those who said they hated Bush before it was cool, or before 9/11 probably hate any president anyway .

Strawman. Many of the people who responded to this topic did name specific policies, positions, and actions.

For all you bitch feminists who think that abortion should be legal I think maybe you should actually look into what you asking to be legalized. Just google the words "Inside the Abortion Clinic" and tell me just what the hell you find on the first thing that shows up. There's even video footage of an abortion being performed. If stem cells are that important than all that's needed is the umblilical cord of all births in america and then you'll have your precious stem cells .

Generalization. Not only are you arguing that abortion (which is a distraction issue by the way) be banned on the basis of what a clearly biased site portrays it as, you are also condemning the practice as a whole based on a few abuses that may occur. By that logic we should shut down all of our nation's hospitals because of the unsanitary conditions or malpractice that occurs in a few of them. There is no scientific OR scriptural basis for the idea that human life begins at conception, and in fact the current laws do prohibit abortions after the second trimester.

Now I'll go on about Katrina. Do you really think Bush was on just any vacation when it hit? No, he was dealing with Cindy Sheehan, a whining mother who complained about her dead son who was a soldier in Iraq. Is it easy to deal with the Bitching of a mother who suddenly changes her views about the war AFTER her son dies? Maybe Bush would've been better prepared for Katrina if he had a clear driveway on his ranch . And for the record, bush was on working vacation at the time so he was still updating himself on Iraq. Maybe Kanye West should take that truth and shove it in his ass until he gets it.

Ad hominem attack. How convenient that you manage to scapegoat a single mother for hog-tying president Bush throughout the entire hurricane season. Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that Sheehan single-handedly distracted Bush, or are you just making an emotional appeal?

Then there's that No Child Left Behind Thing. Teachers complain about how this makes it so that unless they bring a student up to a certain requirement, they lose their students. I think a better way to explain it is like this. Picture a failing student as an SUV with no tires . Teachers say that if they get 3 of those "tires" (eg, SOME of the requirements,)that they should still keep their students. Well can you drive a three wheeled SUV? Of course not, a student who doesn't meet up to the requiremnts just end up failing their grade, and get held back (left behind,), but the purpose of this law was to prevent that.

Have you even bothered to speak to a single teacher about the consequences this policy has been having? (Ask CTE, I think he works as an English teacher.) Schools are being forced to teach to the test, instead of teaching them material that might actually be useful. Schools that do not meet the standards imposed by the No Child policy are punished for it, which only makes the problem worse.

I wish I had more time so I could explain the Iraq thingy and such but I just don't have the time. You guys are all a bunch of gaywad followers (god, I haven't said that in a while ). I'll repost more on this later.

False. Any rational person should be skeptical of all politicians and world leaders. This is not a matter of party loyalty or partisanship. Most of the people here have expressed serious doubts about John Kerry and the democratic party. As far as the "gaywad followers" comment, look who's talking.

NOW SCIENTIFIC OR SCRIPTURAL BASIS?! HEY JACKASS, IT'S CALLED A TEST TUBE BABY! WHAT THE HELL KIND OF BUERACRACY DO YOU FOLLOW!? EVERY BIOLOGIST AND ANTHROPOLIGIST AGREES THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, AND BECUASE OF THIS EVERY PASTOR MAKES THIS CONNECTION WITH THOU SHALT NOT KILL! SINCE THE FIRST TEST TUBE BABY IT WAS PROVEN BEYOUND A SCIENTIFIC DOUBT THAT LIFE STARTS AT CONCEPTION, SO I CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!
Actually, yes Bush was asked to negotiate with Sheehan to prevent the situation between the Bush supporters and the protesters from escalating to a possible riot. Had she not been there, the response time would've been much faster. I don't blame hippies when it comes to the whole save the earth message, even I would like a Hummer that runs on solar power, but in this world, there are protesters, and there are whiners. Sheehan for one I feel was a total whiner for having started her little camp AFTER her son died.
For seeing the effects of no child left behind, yes I have. I did visit my old middle and high school just after it was enacted, and did talk with a few old teachers about this law. The goal it was made for it a worthy one, and although I would agree that it isn't a perfect law, neither is the educational system.
And as for that last statement, "As far as the gaywad followers comment, look who's talking." I must say, thanks for proving my point.

[Rualya]

He doesn't really have a clue what he's going to do. (He doesn't have a plan, in other words.)

[Olivia42]

NOW SCIENTIFIC OR SCRIPTURAL BASIS?! HEY JACKASS, IT'S CALLED A TEST TUBE BABY! WHAT THE HELL KIND OF BUERACRACY DO YOU FOLLOW!? EVERY BIOLOGIST AND ANTHROPOLIGIST AGREES THAT LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION, AND BECUASE OF THIS EVERY PASTOR MAKES THIS CONNECTION WITH THOU SHALT NOT KILL! SINCE THE FIRST TEST TUBE BABY IT WAS PROVEN BEYOUND A SCIENTIFIC DOUBT THAT LIFE STARTS AT CONCEPTION, SO I CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!

You understand that this ALLCAPS post has not only made your arguments laughable to your opponents, but I'm willing to bet that even those who agree with you would go so far as change their opinions just to dissociate themselves from you. (Unless you were replying in jest, in which case, bravo!)

Not every pastor makes the connection between "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and abortion. The ELCA (major Lutheran body in which I was raised) accepts abortion in certain cases. I'm sure other liberal Christian denominations have similar policies. It's the Religious Right you're thinking of, which unfortunately gives all Christians bad names.

And scientifically, nobody can agree when human life really begins. I don't have a source. I'm just remembering my Freshman year Biology class. "Test Tube Baby" is a misnomer; it's conceived in a test tube, but develops in a womb. If you want to argue that an embryo is equal to a baby, we're sh*t out of luck, because that debate could go on forever without really going anywhere.

If I wanted to show any integrity in posting I'd address other points, but not today.

[Kyle the Skeptic]

OMG!! CAPSLOCK!! OMG!! BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...

Yeah. Uh huh. Stomping your feet and screeching at the top of your lungs isn't debating and isn't a sign of intelligence. A monkey could do that. I also suspect you either didn't comprehend or even bother to read half of what I said. Regardless I think we're done here.

[Big-Will]

He doesn't really have a clue what's going to happen next in the war.

Do you?
Does someone here have a clue what's going to happen next?

[triplemultiplex]

Actually, yes Bush was asked to negotiate with Sheehan to prevent the situation between the Bush supporters and the protesters from escalating to a possible riot. Had she not been there, the response time would've been much faster.

Horseshit. It's the day after the worst natural disaster in American history and Bush jets off to California for some trivial crap. And that's got nothing to do with any anti-war protesters. It's Bush deciding to keep doing 'business as usual' rather than managing this crisis. That's poor leadership; the hallmark of the Bush Presidency.

[HellStrykeXL]

He doesn't really have a clue what's going to happen next in the war.

Do you?
Does someone here have a clue what's going to happen next?

Jesus, if I had the power to clone you Big-Will, I would.
Seriously, I wish I knew. I'm an Army Green Beret (we kinda think that name is somewhat outdated,)and even I don't know perfectly what might happen next. So far all I can say is that Iraqi forces are starting to just barely fend for themselves. It's kind of hard to train a country to be able to defend itself from terrorists and not make it a full scale threat to other countries.
But if someone thinks just anyone can join up with army special forces, they really don't know what the military is allowed to do to train someone. The SERE (Survival, Evade, Resist, Escape,) training is full blooded hell on earth, and if these are the type of people fighting the war, then there's no doubt we'll win. I think it's sick that Micheal Moore, who used Matt Stone for his own political gain, somehow thinks this "revolution" of insurgents will win. But anyway, what does not having a clue about what will happen next in a war have to do with anything?

As for you Kyle the Skeptic, you obviously didn't read what I had to say either since you misqouted me . No I wasn't stomping my feet and screaming at the top of my lungs, that's the illusion of CAPS LOCK. Olivia42, you probably don't realize that WRITING IN CAPS LOCK DOESN'T CHANGE MY POINTS. EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE SOMEWHAT ENLARGED LETTERS THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ARE SCARY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. SEE EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE IN CAPS, I STILL HAVE MY NORMAL HEART RATE AND AM READING THIS ALOUD AS I TYPE IN A NORMAL TONE. See? Does that get the message across? It's in big letters so I will assume it does. Yes biologists all agree that life begins when... okay, since this is a south park forum I probably don't need to be that appropriate...when sperm meets egg. I believe in freshman health, they would've had a lesson on that as well.
I would assume that there are some pastors who don't make the connection with the most misunderstood commandment of them all, but then again, there are pastors who happen to be fans of Pamela Anderson (whore! ), so you can't argue against that. There are preists who do things to children that I find very obsene, and appear to be very unpleasent to the general masses of America. Just becuase a few Christians are okay with abortion in some cases doesn't mean the vast majority of protestsants are okay with it.
For you triple multiplex, i must say that it may be easier to understand the actions of any president if you walk in their shoes for one day. ASSUMING that that's what he did on that day you must consider what he has to do to do anything off schedule. the poor commander-in-chief has to lobby past the secret service who are so paranoid about his safety in order to do anything. He did give in with Sheehan, what did you want him to do?

[Olivia42]

Yes biologists all agree that life begins when... okay, since this is a south park forum I probably don't need to be that appropriate...when sperm meets egg.

No, they don't. Not philosophical human life, anyway. I distinctly rememer that. As for the second point, I believe I succeeded in discrediting your sweeping generalization, whether you agree with them or not.

But I give up, anyway. This is why I don't like arguing politics online.

[Kyle the Skeptic]

I've been doing it for years now. It's just that there comes a point when all the stupidity begins to run together into a monotonous drone. It's no longer a matter of winning the debate or proving a point when it comes to people who only want to hear themselves speak no matter what. At one time I would have bothered to take the time to shoot down every single fallacious argument I came across, but there are some people it's simply not worth arguing with because it's a huge waste of time.

I've been in debates on abortion that lasted 30 some-odd pages. Then I realized all we were doing was beating to death what essentially amounts to a distraction issue sensationalized by the religious right. I've debated creationists for hours on end. Then I realized that I would essentially have to give them a crash course in biology in order to make any progress whatsoever. I've debated the Iraq war with neocons who argued that since they are serving in the military and I'm not, that I should shut up and follow their words as gospel, because after all they're fighting for freedom of speech.

Here's the deal. If you state an opinion on a public forum, it is going to be up for grabs for anyone to debate if they wish. If you have a deep psychological attachment to the validity of your opinions, to the point where you can't stand the sight of having them challenged, then FFS keep them to yourself in the first place.

[Big-Will]

WRITING IN CAPS LOCK DOESN'T CHANGE MY POINTS. EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE SOMEWHAT ENLARGED LETTERS THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ARE SCARY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. SEE EVEN THOUGH THESE ARE IN CAPS, I STILL HAVE MY NORMAL HEART RATE AND AM READING THIS ALOUD AS I TYPE IN A NORMAL TONE.

Seriously, typing like this is tantamount to screaming in someone's ear. If you want to emphasize something, use bold text, not caps. Your points may not change, but you'll lose readers if you write in caps.

Yes biologists all agree that life begins when... okay, since this is a south park forum I probably don't need to be that appropriate...when sperm meets egg. I believe in freshman health, they would've had a lesson on that as well.

Then why isn't abortion murder in the eyes of the law? Why do so many women consider the embryo just a bunch of cells and not the life made at conception?

[triplemultiplex]

For you triple multiplex, i must say that it may be easier to understand the actions of any president if you walk in their shoes for one day. ASSUMING that that's what he did on that day you must consider what he has to do to do anything off schedule. the poor commander-in-chief has to lobby past the secret service who are so paranoid about his safety in order to do anything. He did give in with Sheehan, what did you want him to do?

I'm baffled by your continued mentioning of this Sheehan woman. She had nothing to do with this crap. And I'm well aware of the difficult nature of being President. But that's a sh*tty, cop-out excuse that doesn't sit well with Americans. If it were easy, any dumbf*ck cheerleader could hire a professional to teach him to speak 'Texan' and do it.

The day of the storm, Bush is at his little dude ranch playing cowboy or whatever. The next day he travels to California to talk to a bunch of old people about Medicare. Doesn't sound to me like he was 'pinned down' by a peaceful anti-war demonstration. This idea that somehow you can place a little blame on someone opposed to the administration; someone who's been getting the President bad press recently, is laughable.
Two days after Katrina, Bush stops off at Crawford for several hours before finally getting his ass to Washington; the place where he can most effectively manage the crisis given the centralized nature of the government.

What a good leader, a good President would do, is cut off his 'working' vacation at least a day before landfall so he can be at his desk to, I don't know, federalize the national guard in surrounding states and deploy them within spitting distance of Katrina's swath so that the instant the storm cleared, they could move in. You know, sh*t like that.

[Grizim]

I really don't feel strongly about any of this.

But, sex is for reproduction. If you're so full of lust that you're willing to engage in an act that you know might require the murder of a life form in the aftermath, you are scum and you should be treated as such. This applies to both men and women. But, if you're raped, you should have the right to do whatever you want to your body because the embryo was 100% accidental. One thing I realize is that it can't always be proven in court that a woman was raped and that's the reason of her pregnancy. But, I'm not necessarily discussing law right now. I'm simply talking about morals.

Also, I'll admit that there is no evidence what-so-ever that life begins at conception. But there's no evidence life doesn't begin at it either. With the chance that it does, abortion should be looked at as possible murder, and therefore not allowed for the most part (once again, I'm excluding women who were raped). How a person could even live with the thought that he/she might be a murderer is beyond my reasoning.

[cartman8213]

I think abbortion is murder. You take away someone's life in the process. As soon as the semen meets the ovary, that embryo should be given a chance to live. Grizim's right; if you're gonna have sex, then you should be aware that you might get pregnant. You shouldn't have to take away a life because of your carelessness or selfishness.

Although, I do disagree on the other part. If you get raped, and don't want the kid, you should put the child up for adoption. There are plenty of people willing to adopt children. The child will probably perfectly happy. There will be occasional sadness, but overall the child will be happy. A lot of successful people have been adopted, and no one should be ashamed to be adopted. There is a reason that that person was put on the Earth, and I think he/she should be able to live a life.

Most women who get abbortions don't feel sadness right away, but they feel it later in life. There is a guilt factor in all of this. Guilt is a natural feeling, and it comes when you do something bad. A lot of people have felt this way, so I think that says something. I think the fetus is alive in the woman. There is excitement and anxiousness all around when you feel a prengant woman's stomach. The mother is attatched. She feels the baby's prescence, and regrets having an abbortion after the abbortion.

[region7cards]

^^i have no comment on this topic but you spelled abortion wrong

[Cartman_91]

I think abortion should be illegal, if you want to have sex use a condom or take the pill and if you still end up with a baby then so be it live with it, dont want to keep it? Put it up for adoption. But there is one thing that is up for debate. What if this girl was raped. The baby is still hers but still a part of the monster that raped her. Should she be forced and pay for his mistake? I think that is a very tough issue to debate because it's not like she was walking in an alley looking to get raped, this had nothing to do with the girl.