All I can say!
All the "goodness" of SP, back!
Kitsunebaby wrote:I'm so glad south park did this. I've never understood why people get so upset about the negative use of a word that that originally had nothing to do with them. A word that THEY chose to associate with themselves.
I don't undewrstand why homosexuals get upset that the word "gay" is used to mean stupid or annoying when the term didn't originally even mean homosexual. Besides, do you think handicapped people get upset when people use the word "lame" the way they typically do nowadays.
It's stupid when people choose to be victims and feel offended at something that wasn't directed towards them at all. It's even worse when other pretentious douches choose to get upset on the behalf of those who were "insulted" just to feel that they're doing something good. Thank you so much south park!
LGBT people get offended because there still are two different meanings to the word. When growing up trying to figure out an identity for yourself it can be extremely detrimental to hear constantly "that's so gay" or "f.a.g." even if people don't mean homosexual because it is still associated with that meaning. 30% of LGBT youth in this country commits suicide because of the pressures and social ramifications of identifying with a group that is constantly associated with negative everyday insults. Think about it. Just so you can get kicks for saying a word, someone may really be struggling to fit in.
... and you don't care because it's not happening to you.
jwin1 wrote:The worst episode ever. The episode wasn't even funny.
I truly believe in free speech, relish this American freedom, and believe South Park has every right to be offensive or say anything whenever desired. However, a few references here and there to "that's gay" or other such hate-speech (week after week and year after year) is a FAR cry from an entire episode devoted to the word "homosexual".
South Park would be off the air in seconds if there had been an entire episode using 'n*gger' or 'spic' or 'kike', but you feel it's OK to hit the airwaves with 'homosexual'. It's more than offensive, it's disgusting. Trying to excuse homophobia by claiming there are variations of word usage/meaning is unacceptable.
I've been a big fan since the show's inception but I am angry and unwilling to be tolerant of blatant on-air hate speech. I think South Park's creators, writers, and producers owe the GLBT community a huge apology.
You missed the entire point of the episode, you sir, are a fag.
BRMBug wrote:1Spectre4U wrote:I used to work in tool and die shops and this hits so close to home it's practically not funny.
Sorry, you must have me confused with someone else who had the misfortune of having to deal with insecure, hyperagressive boy-men who are overcompensating for other "shortcomings" in their lives. But it's a pleasure to meet you anyways.
it was a really good one, yes yes yes, I've waited for that!
Stupid thing is... My TV is widescreen but it didn't show me where the alien was... guess i better get a new TV before the new episode next week...
I thought this episode was a pretty interesting commentary on the ever changing meaning of many words, especially insults. Not my favorite ever but it had its entertaining moments!
Webster calling them "obdurate beasts" was priceless.
That being said, as a patch holding biker, I hope no one attempts to emulate the name calling in the real world. Some people have a limited sense of humor and may vent in a most unwelcome fashion upon the unwitting smartass.
Personally, unless a jerk decides to get in my face as opposed to driving by and yelling names like a scared little nancy-boy, I'll mostly write it off to stupidity and distinct lack of balls, not worth the effort of chasing them down.
I usually end up next to people who talk sh*t at the next light, where they stare straight ahead, hands at "10 and 2" on the wheel, visibly nervous and scared. I say hi, maybe ask them to repeat themselves (which they won't) and laugh at them for being total tools. That is enough humiliation without beating them down and it's cheaper than getting arrested for dealing out the proper punishment for their transgression. This is the most satisfying when some wannabe tough guy is showing off in front of his buddies or, even better, his girlfriend.
As a wise and now-deceased friend of mine once said, "Life is too short." (RIP, Richie), too short for me to break a sweat over some small-minded crap like name calling.
How soon will it be before Willie G and the Motor Company decide to sue? Their legal dept is a m-f*cker on wheels when it comes to lawsuits.
Maybe Matt and Trey should be careful on the road as well.
I would like to think that bikers aren't as generally disliked and disrespected as was portrayed in the show. It's like any other segment of the community; some folks are cool and others are complete douchenozzles.
I like to think I'm one of the cooler ones. A douchenozzle would never give the caveat and commentary as I just did.
For the record, I don't rev the piss out of my bike at lights or roar through neighborhoods at 2:00 am, red lining my engine like some attention whore.
It's all about respect and it goes both ways. Words to live by.
I gotta make an avatar. F*ck that noob crap.
(EDIT- noob eliminated)
urbear1987 wrote:First off I am gay.
I want to address the episode. I understand it's intentions and I know they weren't attempting to assail homosexuals. That being said.
I disagree with the point they were trying to make and many people on this forum are trying to make. Number 1: homosexuals did NOT take the terms "gay" and "F4G" and use them for ourselves. Those were terms that were attached to us by other groups:
The word "Homosexual" was invented in the late 19th century in order to describe a "disease" or "disorder".
Today, we hear "homosexual" and barely bat an eyelash at the thought. However, to a Victorian-era individual, "homosexual" was a term that was synonymous with medical abnormality, akin to a lethal disease. To this end, euphemisms and other creative ways of referring to this [same-sex attraction] were created - one well-known expression was "the love which dare not speak its name" -- people HAD to have a term to refer to this concept of same-sex love, and "homosexual" was considered a term reserved for serious medical discourse. Some observations were formed about the character of homosexuals - that they were carefree with their sexuality, and they deviated from conventional norms - and thus the term "gay" was applied to them. In fact, "gay" began as a term referring to any non-conservative sexuality.
At this point, we should perhaps clarify the distinction between "accepting" a label and "picking" a label. Minorities are notorious for having little to no say in what labels are put upon them, and I highly doubt that homosexuals at the time willingly petitioned to be called "gay". HOWEVER, considering the options available at the time - "homosexual" still being the medical disease word - there's not much of a choice, and at least "gay" implies a degree of "happiness".
SO, in a nutshell:
I suppose the bigger question to the nay-sayers is "Well, if not 'gay', what should same-sex relationships have been called, excluding 'homosexual'?"
F4G the word has been used since the late sixteenth century to mean "old or unpleasant woman". ibid. Female terms are often used with reference to homosexual or effeminate men (cf. nancy, sissy, queen) and this seems the most likely derivation. It is also possible that the meaning derives from the use of the word as a derogatory term for street prostitutes, female and male, because of their association with the gutter, where "homosexual-ends" of meat were thrown by butchers. The term "homosexual girls" for prostitutes is attested from the late 19th century.
The problem today being that because these terms were attached to homosexuals they accepted them as identifiers and attempted to reduce the hurtfulness of the words by making them positive indicators. This is similar to the use of terms like "Brother" and "Nigga" by African Americans today in an attempt to reduce the hate in those words or similar words.
The problem that stems from that is that because those words are still recognized as identifiers by a large part of the population, they still carry a hidden connotation regardless of the intent of the speaker. Someone who says "That's gay." can very easily only be meaning "That's stupid." but to anyone who has the connotation of "gay=homosexual" the connotation reads "gay=stupid thus homosexual=stupid". Even without the speaker's intent the word and usage is seen as implying negative connotations with homosexuality.
Additionally the terms "F4G" and "gay" would never have gained their negative connotations in this time period if it hadn't been for their connection to the homosexual community and the general hate and misconception directed towards gays in the earlier, and current, parts of the 21st and 22nd century. The terms had been "dead terms" that had fallen out of use in conventional english until they were revived with their homosexual attachment.
Regardless of if you agree or not, the question is, why are "gay" and "F4G" acceptable go to insults when things like "N*gger" and other racially charged epitaphs are not? Why is it that you can't use other terms that have inherently bad connotations (stupid meaning lacking intelligence is a good example) when you intend to insult someone or something?
The fact of the matter is that if you didn't want to offend someone you COULD choose to use other words, the fact that you don't and that you take offense to being asked to use other language or that you take offense to people being offended by those terms doesn't speak to the idea that you're beliefs are correct or acceptable, only to the fact that you don't have enough respect for the groups you're offending to be considerate of their feelings. In the end it makes you look inconsiderate at best.
I agree that people could choose to use other words, especially to respect those who would take offense to specific terms. However, I use the word f*g sometimes, and I don't mean it in any other way than, "dude, you are so lame". I don't say it to gay people, and if I say it around a gay person, I automatically wish I hadn't said it because I honestly mean no offense to them. But like most people, it is just a small part of my lexicon and it happens to slip out without much thought at times. My use of the word is much different than how it is usually interpreted, but I understand why it offends certain people. Though it is much different than saying other words like loser, retard and assh*le, that is basically the kind of context I hold behind it. All can be offensive, but if they are taken in as just words, and not looked at so seriously, then they are much less offensive than they are usually taken to be. I am not going against what the poster I quoted said, I understand that is how you feel about the subject, but I am defending that not all people who use words this way mean anything but a hit to the ego, for lack of a better phrase. Me, I only say sh*t like that to my friends, as a joking kind of insult, not to people who I know will truly be offended. It may be somewhat rude, but I don't use it to truly hurt people. I have absolutely nothing against gay people, it's simply a word that is used by many, and therefore has ended up in my vocabulary. I'm sure that many, if not most, people who use the word aren't against gay people. Homosexuality is becoming increasingly accepted these days
As far as the homosexual thing, I'm guessing you know that through research or such knowledge that homosexual was used as a term for a medical condition or disorder. I find that really sad, but it is much different today. Heterosexual is the term for "straight" people. It is simply addressing that sexuality is between two different sexes. Homosexual is addressing that sexuality is between the same sex. It is a scientific term.
I for one would think that "straight" would be offensive to me if I was gay. It seems to be saying that people who are heterosexual have their head on straight and homosexuals do not. However, it is the accepted term.
I think this episode hit a lot of good points (and though the funny moments were few, it was still a really good episode). The use of the term f*g is taken very seriously by many people, and understandably so, but there is a time where we have to accept that it is no longer attacking one specific group of people. We have to lighten up a little even though that may be hard to do.
Although this was the first episode I couldn't find the alien in.
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