*1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Discuss new episodes without ruining them for people in other time zones.

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geoffr111
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby geoffr111 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:27 am

I don't understand why the episode relied on the Harley riders to make its point that the word FAG has shifted in meaning. The show has used the word quite a bit in the past in ways that are inconsistent with the proposed definition (Guitar Queero, as just one example).

At first I thought they were going to go somewhere with the idea of being socially outcast for particular lifestyles, but that never really got much screen time or mention. I find that pretty disappointing.

No matter what argument anyone makes about the way they intend the word's use in their own speech, it is still used every day as a part of hate speech and a tool to label and ostracize gays and lesbians. Use the word however you want, but don't deny this very real fact.

It's interesting that the way the word n*gger has gotten to be less offensive to many is through a similar sort of re-definition. Note, however, that in this case the word has become no longer pejorative, whereas the proposed definition for FAG still is. This seems to be a key distinction in the disputed meaning of the word.

I found this episode to be disappointing, though its message is not lost on me and I am actually glad the writers/creators attempted to make this point in the show itself (instead of in the mini-commentary as they have done before). That said, however, their sloppy treatment of an issue that has begged to be addressed now for at least five seasons seems more like an attempt to justify sloppy writing and defray with badly-conceived humor the impact of their use of a controversial word than an actual, well-intentioned consideration of the debate.
geoffr111
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby geoffr111 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:34 am

...And what the hell is up with this board auto-censoring and changing the word F-A-G to "homosexual" in every post? Especially given the subject of this episode. The irony is too much.
nall
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby nall » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:44 am

Forgot to mention this earlier, but the uncensored audio is now available.
Big-Will
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Big-Will » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:52 am

geoffr111 wrote:...And what the hell is up with this board auto-censoring and changing the word F-A-G to "homosexual" in every post? Especially given the subject of this episode. The irony is too much.

It's a word filter. I think it should be removed too, but some parent will write in about the bad words his or her kids learned on this site and how those words should be censored here.
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BR1ANMAYHEM
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby BR1ANMAYHEM » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:57 am

i kould NOT find the alien ANYWHERE!!! i even went back and looked for it!!! hard as hell, i saw it in whale whores i just randomly saw it w out even looking for it. they should put up a list of all the episodes w hidden aliens in them and a klickable link to see a pic of where it kan be found. is there anything like that? if not the staff of southparkstudios should totally make one!
BRMBug
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby BRMBug » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:29 am

Whatever you do, do not click here. Just know that it might fit both meanings of the word in question.




Wish I could find the story associated with that pic. The one I found it with isn't the right one.
ralphy
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby ralphy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:30 am

Nice episode, although it looked like they finish it in the last minute, but anyway, I loved it! :D
bmzerkel
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby bmzerkel » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:23 pm

blablablbalablbalbalbalblblbalbalbalablbalablbalab lbalbalbalbalab....blabblab!!!!!!

Seems all the Harley riders over in the Harley Davidson forum found it hilarious :P

But, some of the previous posters here have a good point. The whole point of the episode (to not call homosexuals faggs) did pretty much get completely lost.

Now I'm off to ride my Harley to work 8)

blabblabblab.....blabblabblubblab
bmzerkel
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby bmzerkel » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:28 pm

and I'm very surprised that none of you mentioned that cigarettes are still called faggs in England.
So I guess us Harley owners are a bunch of cigarettes then :lol:

blabblabblabblab....blabblabblablub..............
Pfag
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Pfag » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:15 pm

Although I did fins the show funny and more-or-less on target, why is it that gays can be used to show how language can hurt but other minority groups (such as the K* word people and N* word people) are never satirized?
Scotland
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Scotland » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:13 pm

bmzerkel wrote:and I'm very surprised that none of you mentioned that cigarettes are still called faggs in England.
So I guess us Harley owners are a bunch of cigarettes then :lol:

I may have not mentioned it, but I did make this on the Thursday when I seen the episode.

http://triteas.deviantart.com/art/002-W ... -142593855
Yeah! So I did! I wanna just smiling!
BRMBug
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby BRMBug » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:21 pm

Scotland wrote:I may have not mentioned it, but I did make this on the Thursday when I seen the episode.

http://triteas.deviantart.com/art/002-W ... -142593855

:lol:
creatures4eons
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby creatures4eons » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:55 pm

Kitsunebaby wrote:
avh28 wrote:
Kitsunebaby wrote:I'm so glad south park did this. I've never understood why people get so upset about the negative use of a word that that originally had nothing to do with them. A word that THEY chose to associate with themselves.

I don't undewrstand why homosexuals get upset that the word "gay" is used to mean stupid or annoying when the term didn't originally even mean homosexual. Besides, do you think handicapped people get upset when people use the word "lame" the way they typically do nowadays.

It's stupid when people choose to be victims and feel offended at something that wasn't directed towards them at all. It's even worse when other pretentious douches choose to get upset on the behalf of those who were "insulted" just to feel that they're doing something good. Thank you so much south park!


LGBT people get offended because there still are two different meanings to the word. When growing up trying to figure out an identity for yourself it can be extremely detrimental to hear constantly "that's so gay" or "f.a.g." even if people don't mean homosexual because it is still associated with that meaning. 30% of LGBT youth in this country commits suicide because of the pressures and social ramifications of identifying with a group that is constantly associated with negative everyday insults. Think about it. Just so you can get kicks for saying a word, someone may really be struggling to fit in.

... and you don't care because it's not happening to you.


Please don't assume you know what's happening to me and everyone else in the LGBT community. I'm a bisexual girl with VERY conservative catholic parents. My mother gets upset and worried everytime I even mention that a woman is attractive and I know how awkward it is when you are trying to figure out your own identity. I, however, don't get upset at the negative use of words when they are not directed at me. Neither do most of my gay and lesbian friends because they, too, have common sense.

I understand that the current negative uses of "f*g" and "gay" have probably come about due to some negative feelings towards those people, but if you know that the people using the word mean no harm toward you or your sexuality then WHY get upset over it. Why not just allow the words to change meanings as they have done for centuries. If you want to be offended and complain about being personally attacked then I guess this is the perfect chance for you. I guess I can complain when people are called "pussies" because it's insulting a female body part. You do see how ridiculous that is, right? I myself am not a victim, and so I don't get upset at naughty words by deciding that they are somehow attacking me.

Also, that 30% sounds like a ridiculous statistic and I would like to know what study it came from. I have known and been friends with many lesbian, gay, and bisexual people through my life and the only one who ever TRIED to commit suicide was me several times back in middle school, and that was for reasons completely unrelated to my sexuality. You have no ability of knowing why someone kills themselves and it is irresponsible of you to claim that it's because of their sexuality. Sometimes people are just depressed. I guess if you want, then ALL problems can be blamed on society.


I applaud you for your maturity and ability to not take offense every time these words are used. Good for you! :)
yarver
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby yarver » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:08 pm

Where's the alien?


In your butt, probing.



Hrubububuuubbuuubbububub.
Kitsunebaby
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Re: *1312: The F Word* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Kitsunebaby » Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:21 pm

avh28 wrote:
Kitsunebaby wrote:
urbear1987 wrote:
It's great that you have never felt insulted personally or insecure about your position in life because of overhearing comments like that. I'm also glad you've never had to deal with serious depression or suicide because of those issues.

The 30% stat comes from actual research done by organizations which go across the country asking gay and lesbian individuals about their experiences. Rather then anecdotal experience by a single teenager.

1 in 10 teenagers on average across the country is gay or lesbian. A large portion of those will hear the terms "gay" and "homosexual" used in derogatory terms, many directed at them. 1 in 5 suicide attempts that are unsuccessful are reported by the attemptor as being because of harassment based on sexual orientation, perceived sexual orientation or gender identity or perceived gender identity. Many of the suicide attempts that do succeed include notes to family and loved ones about why they have killed themselves.

I'm HAPPY that you have never suffered through that. But to assume that no one does because you happened to have a good stroke of luck with your living situation, friends, and family is no reason to scoff at the suffering of others. NO child should feel so hated or socially outcast that suicide seems like a solution. Any behavior that pushes someone to that idea should not be viewed as respectable or acceptable by society. Yes, you have the freedom to say those things, it doesn't mean you're not an assh*le for doing it.

There is no need to use the terms "gay" and "homosexual" to insult someone.


Yet again there's no link to any study for me to see. I realize that my anecdotal experiences mean absolutely nothing but I also know that if these organisations went, "across the country asking gay and lesbian individuals about their experiences" then your statistics mean nothing if they were determined without a randomly selected sample of people. Anyone who has taken an elementary course in statistics would know that. I am wondering where you got your information as reporting that 10% of teenagers are gay or lesbian seems rather black and white for a subject with so many shades of grey. This is getting off topic however.

My entire point is that most common language is offensive to somebody or something. Bastards is offensive toward illegitimate children. Fatass is offensive toward anyone who is sensitive about their weight. Lame is offensive to crippled people. Pussy is offensive to women. I guess we should just do away with all offensive language. What's that called again? Oh right, censorship! I have to say it's quite odd that someone who is in favor of censorship watches south park: the show most wholeheartedly AGAINST censorship.

Everyone gets upset at things that others say. They always have, they always will. I suggest that if people can't handle this they should go find a nice rock to live under where noone can ever speak to them. Or they can grow some balls and realize that their problems are no more important than anyone else's. They can choose to get upset at whatever they want but to claim that others are in the wrong and need to change when they are doing nothing that humans haven't done for centuries is horribly arrogant. Words change, get over it.




If you would really like the statistical information, try here. http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexu ... tudies.htm or you can google 30% of gay suicide. I absolutely think that it's gret that you don't take offense to slurs as a bisexual woman. I am also a part of the LGBT community and the only reason I seek to bring awareness to that is that some of my LGBT brothers and sisters do take offense, are contemplating suicide, and are going through chaotic periods in their life. Why should they have to be tormented? Why don't they get equality. And fyi, there are women who hate the word pussie, cripples who hate lame, mentally challenged that don't like retarded, and yes you have a point about offensive language being everywhere, but why is it ok to allow people to say those words when our society has such a double standard when it comes to , for example, racial slurs? Just because YOU'RE ok with it doesn't mean you should create a climate that fosters and promotes someone else's uncomfortabilty.


Believe me, I hate all forms of censorship. I believe to political correctness is currently doing more harm than good for our society and our culture. The meanings of these words are still a bit hazy as they currently shifting from one meaning to another. They could quite possibly get to the point where they are never used in reference to homosexuals. Political correctness is keeping this from happening by making it taboo to ever say so that they are stuck with the old meanings. The entire point of this episode is that the words are changing meaning and that we should allow them to do that, so that in the future when someone uses them they will not be judging people on sexuality or other stupid issues. Instead they will be judging them on what really matters, their personalities and their actions. I personally find this to be a good outcome.

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