The Official Stan Discussion Thread

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vexille
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Postby vexille » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:09 am

By all means, Shane. Lets hear the possibilities.
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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:16 am

1. The first one(And the most popular) was that Stan was trying to suck up to Token because he really wants to get closer to Wendy, even if he doesn't realize it. He wants to be over her, but still loves her in the puppy dog kind of way. There is a part of him that doesn't want anything bad to happen to her and longs for the days of old.


2. The one I liked better, as it adds a severe character flaw. Stan was trying so hard for his father's racist comment because he himself is a racist and ashamed of it. I know people who don't want to be racist, but whose racist thoughts at times cloud their judgements about another race. They kick themselves for it and constantly try to get affirmation that they aren't racist, even though they know they are.
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vexille
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Postby vexille » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:42 pm

If Stan wanted Wendy back from Token, then he could have been attempting that long before Randy's t.v. appearance. Also, Stan is rather hostile to those that are, or seemingly, having a relationship with his ex. And besides, beyond "Raisens", there have been no further hints or references to Wendy and Token's relationship. So its safe to assume they're no longer an item.

I doubt personally that Stan is racist. A jewish bestfriend, an African-American cafeteria worker whose advice he sought and whom he respected. If he was racist, we would have seen the signs years ago. And although it can be argued that Cartman, a certified racist, respected Chef too. There are always exceptions to the rule in his world. No. There would have been previous clues to Stan's true nature, even if he is perversely bigoted.

I think he wanted to make it up to Token, out of fear that he might be ostracized by everyone, or just through genuine shame or embarrassment of what his father said. Perhaps both.

Like I said, Stan need not have bothered apologising to Token. Does every caucasion deserve an apology from the entire ethnicity of the person whom utters the words "white-trash", "honky" or "cracker"? Not at all. And so it should apply to everyone. On Tokens part, even if he finds the word "n*gger" to be deeply offensive, he could still have just gracefully accepted Stan's apology and told him he holds no ill will.
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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:39 pm

vexille wrote:If Stan wanted Wendy back from Token, then he could have been attempting that long before Randy's t.v. appearance. Also, Stan is rather hostile to those that are, or seemingly, having a relationship with his ex. And besides, beyond "Raisens", there have been no further hints or references to Wendy and Token's relationship. So its safe to assume they're no longer an item.

I doubt personally that Stan is racist. A jewish bestfriend, an African-American cafeteria worker whose advice he sought and whom he respected. If he was racist, we would have seen the signs years ago. And although it can be argued that Cartman, a certified racist, respected Chef too. There are always exceptions to the rule in his world. No. There would have been previous clues to Stan's true nature, even if he is perversely bigoted.

I think he wanted to make it up to Token, out of fear that he might be ostracized by everyone, or just through genuine shame or embarrassment of what his father said. Perhaps both.

Like I said, Stan need not have bothered apologising to Token. Does every caucasion deserve an apology from the entire ethnicity of the person whom utters the words "white-trash", "honky" or "cracker"? Not at all. And so it should apply to everyone. On Tokens part, even if he finds the word "n*gger" to be deeply offensive, he could still have just gracefully accepted Stan's apology and told him he holds no ill will.


1- They were seen in the "Jeffersons", and we have no reason to doubt that they aren't still an item. Remember, Stan and Wendy didn't do things together for a long time and we were still shocked.

2- Stan is hostile, and this is why this opportunity seemed perfect. Here, he gets toplay up the side that he wants Token to see. You can still tell he hurts over the break-up, and this is why he still acts hostile towards Wendy. But we also know he still cares for her. As such, becoming friends with her boyfriend will put him in a much better position to get accustomed to her again and, his mind, to win her back over time.

3- I said he was shamed of his racist feelings, not that he showed them. We don't know what goes on in his head. Most people, just like the show said, have racist thoughts or feelings at some point. In kids, emotions can be blown up. So in Stan's case, just like many kids his age, he has deep racist thoughts and feelings. It also probably doesn't help Token that he is the only black kid that Stan has contact with. As the final nail in the coffin, Stan may be pissed off at Token for his relationship with Wendy, and this may make his racist feelings grow. But, being a caring kid, he doesn't want to have these feelings, and is afraid these feelings show. Hence his insistence on Token accepting his apology. I also doubt that, canon wise, Stan is racist, but teh thought and possibility intrigues me very much.

4- Also remember that I specialize in out-of-the box character progression. :lol:
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NotReallyStan
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Postby NotReallyStan » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:20 am

ShaneHaughey wrote:1- They were seen in the "Jeffersons", and we have no reason to doubt that they aren't still an item. Remember, Stan and Wendy didn't do things together for a long time and we were still shocked.


Actually, I think the reason they broke up was because they weren't doing things together. If Token and Wendy are doing the same thing, I doubt their relationship goes as well either. Besides, Token is hardly a main character, so there would be no need for an explicit statement that "Token and Wendy have broken up."
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:45 am

NotReallyStan wrote:
ShaneHaughey wrote:1- They were seen in the "Jeffersons", and we have no reason to doubt that they aren't still an item. Remember, Stan and Wendy didn't do things together for a long time and we were still shocked.


Actually, I think the reason they broke up was because they weren't doing things together. If Token and Wendy are doing the same thing, I doubt their relationship goes as well either. Besides, Token is hardly a main character, so there would be no need for an explicit statement that "Token and Wendy have broken up."


But since the last thing we saw was that they were together, that is what we must go on.
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Postby NotReallyStan » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:29 am

I don't even think that they were together in Jeffersons. They're juxtaposed next to one another, but they aren't holding hands, talking to one another, or doing anything to suggest they're still a couple. I really don't think that Stan's devious enough to try to butter up Token just to get closer to Wendy. Stan's always been a very honest, up-front person and not the kind to scheme or plot.
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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:43 am

NotReallyStan wrote:I don't even think that they were together in Jeffersons. They're juxtaposed next to one another, but they aren't holding hands, talking to one another, or doing anything to suggest they're still a couple. I really don't think that Stan's devious enough to try to butter up Token just to get closer to Wendy. Stan's always been a very honest, up-front person and not the kind to scheme or plot.


He wasn't very nice and up-front in "Follow That Egg".
He is the type to scheme and plot. The difference is that his plans are subtle.
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Postby NotReallyStan » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:06 am

I'm not sure "subtle" is the word I'd use there. Stan was outright hostile towards Kyle until Kyle confronted him. Stan wasn't being sneaky and underhanded... he wore his ulterior motives on his sleeve. If he was the type to suck up to Token to get closer to Wendy, he would've done the same to Kyle if he really believed that Kyle was with Wendy.

Besides, if Stan thought that Kyle was with Wendy, then that means that Token was probably out of the picture by then too, because Stan probably kept an ear tuned in on whatever Wendy's relationship status was.
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Fri Mar 16, 2007 6:47 am

NotReallyStan wrote:I'm not sure "subtle" is the word I'd use there. Stan was outright hostile towards Kyle until Kyle confronted him. Stan wasn't being sneaky and underhanded... he wore his ulterior motives on his sleeve. If he was the type to suck up to Token to get closer to Wendy, he would've done the same to Kyle if he really believed that Kyle was with Wendy.

Besides, if Stan thought that Kyle was with Wendy, then that means that Token was probably out of the picture by then too, because Stan probably kept an ear tuned in on whatever Wendy's relationship status was.


1- Stan wasn't plotting in "Follow That Egg". He was pissed. He may have been plotting in "Apologies to Jesse Jackson."
2- Remember that Stan has had time to get used to the idea of Token, not one of his main friends, going out with his ex. In "Follow That Egg", it was sudden and it was his best friend.
3- Stan would get jealous regardless of what he thought the situation with Wendy and another guy is, even if he has little reason to.
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vexille
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Postby vexille » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:03 pm

ShaneHaughey wrote:
1- They were seen in the "Jeffersons", and we have no reason to doubt that they aren't still an item. Remember, Stan and Wendy didn't do things together for a long time and we were still shocked.

2- Stan is hostile, and this is why this opportunity seemed perfect. Here, he gets toplay up the side that he wants Token to see. You can still tell he hurts over the break-up, and this is why he still acts hostile towards Wendy. But we also know he still cares for her. As such, becoming friends with her boyfriend will put him in a much better position to get accustomed to her again and, his mind, to win her back over time.

3- I said he was shamed of his racist feelings, not that he showed them. We don't know what goes on in his head. Most people, just like the show said, have racist thoughts or feelings at some point. In kids, emotions can be blown up. So in Stan's case, just like many kids his age, he has deep racist thoughts and feelings. It also probably doesn't help Token that he is the only black kid that Stan has contact with. As the final nail in the coffin, Stan may be pissed off at Token for his relationship with Wendy, and this may make his racist feelings grow. But, being a caring kid, he doesn't want to have these feelings, and is afraid these feelings show. Hence his insistence on Token accepting his apology. I also doubt that, canon wise, Stan is racist, but teh thought and possibility intrigues me very much.

4- Also remember that I specialize in out-of-the box character progression. :lol:



I must have missed that sight in the episode. Well, unless we see any kind of intimate behaviour between them again, then its still anyones guess.

All I saw in that episode was Stan trying in vain to redeem himself in Token's eyes. Only for Token to act like such an uptight c.unt and twist Stan's words. As intriging as the notion of a dark, shameful secret may be, I doubt that was the writer's intent. If it was, Stan might have frustratedly uttered some racial slur at some moment of the show, or subconsciously did something to enrage or harm Token. But that is, at least, how I view the situation.

Also, if Wendy factored in any of this, then she was never refered to, nor did she have any dialogue in this episode.

On a seperate note, look at "Bad Blood" in the Fanfic forum.
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Postby Infusions » Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:56 pm

Why is it everytime there's some minor detail in a plotline, which may I remind you, has nothing to do with the actual plot, people go "OMG. I just saw <EPISODE> and I totally think they love each other. SLASH PARTY!!"

Randy uses the word n*gger on television. Token gets upset, Stan goes to apologize multiple times. But Token is still pissed and can't get over it. Meanwhile, Cartman meets a midgets and cannot stop laughing. In the end, he ends up fighting the midget and Stan finally realizes the deal with Token. That he'll never understand how he feels. Token is happy, Cartman is happy, the midget is happy, and they all get married and have three beautiful kids.

Where at all does anybody see Wendy in there? You can watch that episode as many times as you please, you will not find a trace of Wendy/Stan in that.

Cartman Sucks has more "action" than Apologies to Jessie Jackson, and that episode STILL prooves that Cartman/Butters will never work.

Besides, is it really such a huge deal whether or not Token and Wendy are still together and if Stan still likes her or not? I mean, the only real Wendy+Stan that was happening was in the first few seasons. Then it was just... Over.

So yeah. I know for a fact many are gonna argue with me and say "That's not at all what we're talking about!!" because somehow, even though I read this like, five times trying to get my facts straight, I'm still wrong. Gah. :c
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vexille
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Postby vexille » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:38 pm

If everyone heeded your advice, there would nothing to talk about. Its the little, silly, things that give threads like this the fuel to remain active. If all this offends you in any way, then you're just wasting your time.
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NotReallyStan
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Postby NotReallyStan » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:29 pm

He wasn't very nice and up-front in "Follow That Egg".
He is the type to scheme and plot. The difference is that his plans are subtle.


1- Stan wasn't plotting in "Follow That Egg". He was pissed. He may have been plotting in "Apologies to Jesse Jackson."
2- Remember that Stan has had time to get used to the idea of Token, not one of his main friends, going out with his ex. In "Follow That Egg", it was sudden and it was his best friend.
3- Stan would get jealous regardless of what he thought the situation with Wendy and another guy is, even if he has little reason to.


I'm confused. Was Stan plotting or not in "Follow That Egg?" Because to me, he was very up front to Kyle about what was pissing him off.

And if Stan was jealous of Token, why didn't he show it? Stan has always shown his emotions on his sleeve. In every single episode, Stan has never been a "mystery" or anything like that. When he started "La Resistance," it was obvious that he was doing it to try to impress Wendy. With Wendy not even being mentioned in this episode and only fulfilling "background character" status, I don't think that we can reasonably say that she had anything to do with Stan's reasons for wanting to get on Token's good side. I'd buy the "secretly afraid he's a racist" one, but not that.
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Postby Schantrac » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:42 am

Infusions wrote:Why is it everytime there's some minor detail in a plotline, which may I remind you, has nothing to do with the actual plot, people go "OMG. I just saw <EPISODE> and I totally think they love each other. SLASH PARTY!!"



You know why this is Infusions? It is because deep down in side.. people REALLY want to see some slash. The current trend in fics have been leaning toward slash.. coincidence? I think not.
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