Who the smartest: stan or kyle

Discuss South Park characters with all your friends, buddies and guys.

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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:12 pm

Big-Will wrote:
ShaneHaughey wrote:
Big-Will wrote:A mart emperor wouldn't need [s]a vizier[/s] an adviser. ;)

Err, if that was directed at me, it failed. I spelled everything correctly.

It went over your head. It wasn't about the spelling. I was making a Disney reference - Jafar, the Sultan's Grand Vizier, smart, cunning, compared to the Sultan, who was rather dumb and gullible.

Oh, you must know that I have a very poor memory and I can hardly remember the name of the diner I went to for Easter dinner. :lol:
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Razvy
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Postby Razvy » Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:14 pm

I think Stan is smartest... :wink:
Thrawny
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Postby Thrawny » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:18 am

vexille wrote:
Thrawny wrote:Actually I remember Butter tutoring Stan in "My Future Self and Me", implying that Butters most likely gets better grades then Stan.


Even if that is the case, Butters may require Stan to guide him through the convoluted and cynical nature of the world. Personally I thought Stan was simply a bit behind on his homework, and asked the diligent Butters to help him catch up.

Stan: The Emperor.
Kyle: The Regent and Prime Minister.
Butters: The Minister of Finances.
Cartman: Master Torturer.

A leader should choose like-minded people in his inner-circle.


Good point, in that same episode Stan had to help Butters understand that his future self was really an actor. He is definantly a follower rather then a leader. But he still has his own kind of intelligence. Hence why Butters is a good student, once you teach him something he catches on and remembers it quick. He just lacks couriosity and chooses to learn and concern himself with only what will have an immediate impact on him. He does not persue "knowledge for knowledge sake"
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Thrawny
gregh2k5
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Postby gregh2k5 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:53 am

It's been implied on the show that Kyle is the smartest

examples:
kyle got to the finals in the spelling bee

mr. garrison once told Ike that he taught his older brother, who was really smart

kyle performed a blood sample on the left handed serial killer
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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:46 pm

gregh2k5 wrote:It's been implied on the show that Kyle is the smartest

examples:
kyle got to the finals in the spelling bee

mr. garrison once told Ike that he taught his older brother, who was really smart

kyle performed a blood sample on the left handed serial killer


Kyle is very smart, but all things Kyle is smart at give you time to think and prepare. I want to see him do something in the spur of the moment.
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vexille
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Postby vexille » Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:43 pm

While Matt Stone and Trey Parker stated themselves that Kyle is the smart kid in the group, in practice however, Stan's character has been scripted to appear to possess above average intelligence. There was a similar evolution of character with Dewey in "Malcolm in the middle." Despite the stupid antics Malcolm got himself into, he was continually referred to as a genius, as if it was going out of fashion. Where as with Dewey, his grade point average largely went unmentioned, but he had obviously surpassed Malcolm intellectually during season five onwards ( who else could manipulate Malcolm in becoming a willing participant in his own humiliation ). While it probably wasn't the original plan, its too late to portray Stan as anything other than he is. I'm not saying he's a brighter spark than Kyle, they're pretty much the same as far as intelligence goes.
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ClydesGirl
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Postby ClydesGirl » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:26 am

Cartman L. wrote:Stan has an average brain,Kyle is more smart...he has the cunning Jew in him and he always has to think of sth smart to cover his dirt from his mom!


lol the cunning Jew. Ya, I belive Kyle's the smartest.
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SuperMaids
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Postby SuperMaids » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:51 am

Vexil has a good point but... the whole Malcom in the middle thing isn't really relevant here because even if Stan's inteligence is portrayed as far less than it really is, (any of the kids are pretty smart fore nine year olds...) it's still less than Kyles. Kyle's the smartest, school wise. While Stan is about the same in spur of the moment intligence things to Kyle, Kyle's the clear winner in the school side; therefore, kyle's the winner!
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vexille
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Postby vexille » Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:39 am

The whole "Malcolm in the Middle" thing was just a comparison in individual character development, nothing more. It was the only example I could remember at the time about how a show's writers could gradually alter and re-define a main character.

Even if Kyle does better at school, that in itself doesn't make me think he possess higher intelligence. Unless you think consistancy in classroom performance is more important than knowing instantly what to do if say, you're friend was just hit by a car, and you were trying to save his or her life. I'm not trivializing the importance of education, but dedication to school-work won't really do a lot for you if some crazy person was waving a gun in your face.
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Postby candies » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:55 pm

Wait! I get it now, Kyle is like the central intelligent one and Stan is like the typical intelligent. I never wouldn’t guess Kyle was the smart one all along, but in the one episodes Stan used to be like the common clever and make thing clear if I not mistaking. I remember one episode where the boys were at a spelling bee contest and Kyle almost won and basely Mrs. /Mr. Garrison told Ike before “ I had your brother Kyle in my forth grade class and he’s very smart one” or something like that.

Stan isn’t the smart one after all, Kyle is!!
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ushankasrockmysocks
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Postby ushankasrockmysocks » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:29 pm

There's a difference between being intellectual and being intelligent. Even if you are intelligent it does not mean you will necessarily be very interested in intellectual things.
Kyle certainly seems to be more intellectual than Stan, but they are both quite intelligent. Stan is (a little) more likely than Kyle to see the big picture and so make the "I learned something today" speech at the end, a clear indicator that his intelligence is comparable to Kyle's. And really, does he SOUND, when he speaks, like an "average" kid to you?

As for Butters getting better grades than Stan, that may not imply that Stan gets "average" grades at all, since Butters was once shown to be a sort of math genius. Perhaps Butters generally gets very good grades; or perhaps he was only tutoring Stan in math.
vexille
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Postby vexille » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:55 pm

Ushankarocksmysocks: Listen to this one. S/He knows what s/he's talking about. You're right, academic interests don't soley signify a childs intelligence. Intellectual persuits and higher levels of awareness and comprehension are two seperate things.

Candies: For starters, its naive to assume that a kid winning or almost winning a mere spelling bee is far more intelligent than his peers. Also, when Garrison was speaking to Ike in "Trapper Keeper," his brother was the obvious person that Garrison would be comparing to. Kyle isn't the only smart kid in his class.

In "Night of the Living Homeless", Stan showed some impressive driving and mechanical skills. Does that look like the sort of thing that an average kid would do? I think not.
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ShaneHaughey
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:22 pm

Also, about academics.....


Remember that Stan was the better speller in "Tom's Rhinoplasty", hence he got the dinner.

So if we do go that route, okay then.


Besides that, I think this debate is over. Yet again, the Marsh has won!

(BTW, don't stop. I just said that because I felt like it. Continue!)
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SuperMaids
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Postby SuperMaids » Tue May 01, 2007 12:38 am

The Marsh has one? No way dude!
Just because Kyle's more intelectual, is a harder worker at school and also has a profound knowledge of genetics 9as of Ginger kids), philosophy (The Tooth Fairys Tats 2000), musical styles (knows stuff i didn't even know in CHR), Latino culture... doesn't mean that he's not as smart as Stan in other ways too!
Just because Stan's the one who learns somethin at the end the most often, doesn't mean he's 'seeing the bigger picture' more than Kyle, just means he didn't know it from the beginning and teach it to Stan, as Kyle does in various episodes (i think...). And how many times has Stan known to do something Kyle wouldn't have thought of in the same situation? He might resccue Kyle a lot, biut that's coz Kyle sees evil and tries to stop it quicker than Stan (being the impulsive little dude he is) and gets in trouble.
Dont get me wrong, Stan's a genious for his age, he's just not as more ingenious than Kyle, if anything he's a tiny bit dumber, but not by much.
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Postby ShaneHaughey » Tue May 01, 2007 12:49 am

SuperMaids wrote:The Marsh has one? No way dude!
Just because Kyle's more intelectual, is a harder worker at school and also has a profound knowledge of genetics 9as of Ginger kids), philosophy (The Tooth Fairys Tats 2000), musical styles (knows stuff i didn't even know in CHR), Latino culture... doesn't mean that he's not as smart as Stan in other ways too!
Just because Stan's the one who learns somethin at the end the most often, doesn't mean he's 'seeing the bigger picture' more than Kyle, just means he didn't know it from the beginning and teach it to Stan, as Kyle does in various episodes (i think...). And how many times has Stan known to do something Kyle wouldn't have thought of in the same situation? He might resccue Kyle a lot, biut that's coz Kyle sees evil and tries to stop it quicker than Stan (being the impulsive little dude he is) and gets in trouble.
Dont get me wrong, Stan's a genious for his age, he's just not as more ingenious than Kyle, if anything he's a tiny bit dumber, but not by much.


But that, "I see evil so I'll stop it!" isn't any different than what Stan sees. Difference there is that Kyle, like you said, is too impulsive while Stan sits back and studies the situation. Let me ask you this:

If they both commanded two platoons of Army Rangers in a War game, who would win?

If they ruled separate kingdoms, who would thrive?

The answer to both is Stan. Why? Kyle's strengths are all based on him having time. If he is stuck in a situation where he doesn't have time, guess what? he gets impulsive. Stan, on the other hand, makes better decisions at a rapid pace.

Latino culture- We only saw Cartman and Kyle's report, and even then, how do we know Stan doesn't know exactly what Kyle knows? It wasn't required to write that paper.

Musical styles- Same thing. How do we know Stan isn't even better in this category?

Philosophy- Kyle had to read a few books in order to finally come to this realization. Even then, the philosophy basically boils down to, "You know what? Don't worry about existence.". Stan already knew this, hence why he didn't have that freak out.

Harder worker at school- Nothing to do with intelligence.

Intellectual- Read the above.

Genetics- Yeah, and so? That knowledge has come into usefulness once. That is exactly what is reffered to as "Book smarts", not "Street Smarts". Street Smarts > Book Smarts.
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