The official Wendy disscussion Thread

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KennyStanWendyFan
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Postby KennyStanWendyFan » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:00 pm

Yeah, let's hope April Stewart sticks around a while. Her Wendy is at least better than Eliza Schneider's. I miss Mona Marshall's Wendy though. I wonder why she stopped. Hers was pretty close to Mary Kay Bergman's. April's is a bit more grown up sounding than Mary Kay and Mona's, but at least it makes her seem mature instead of whiny like Eliza's. It doesn't help that the Wendy episodes that aired during Eliza's time as Wendy were bad episodes for Wendy. Late Season 4 and Season 5 Wendy was fine, but Seasons 6 and 7 Wendy, especially 6, was just... ugh. Season 8 was a nice relief from that. I was beginning to think that Wendy had become a forgotten character until 812.
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Stans The Bomb
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Postby Stans The Bomb » Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:43 pm

I think wendy and stan should get back together. They are perfect for eachother. I was like in tears when she dumped him in raisins. Im really hoping they will get back together this season, or the next. Stan still cares for her, you could totally tell in follow that egg. From what i know there relationship was based on one of treys relationships, but still, im hoping it happens. Shes reallys pointless on the show now. But you never know, even trey and matt said it could happen. (sorry im a late poster :lol: )
fattass12
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Postby fattass12 » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:36 pm

i dont think theyre wont be a stan and wendy episode. in fact i dont think wendy will have any lines anymore. they ended it in raisins.
swellman7
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Postby swellman7 » Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:42 pm

fattass12 wrote:i dont think theyre wont be a stan and wendy episode. in fact i dont think wendy will have any lines anymore. they ended it in raisins.


No they didn't. She's had major rolls in "Stupid spoiled whore video playset" from the 8th season. AND "marjorine" from the 9th season. AND "Follow that egg" from the ninth season. And I think she had a small line in "cartoon wars" too. So saying that she won't have any more lines is just stupid and you have no information to back that up.
Stans The Bomb
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Postby Stans The Bomb » Sun Oct 15, 2006 10:03 pm

swellman7 wrote:
fattass12 wrote:i dont think theyre wont be a stan and wendy episode. in fact i dont think wendy will have any lines anymore. they ended it in raisins.


No they didn't. She's had major rolls in "Stupid spoiled whore video playset" from the 8th season. AND "marjorine" from the 9th season. AND "Follow that egg" from the ninth season. And I think she had a small line in "cartoon wars" too. So saying that she won't have any more lines is just stupid and you have no information to back that up.


I agree indefinetly (sp) I really hope they get back together
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Rualya
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Postby Rualya » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:07 am

I have never really liked Wendy. She is my least favorite character, but I do think she has had some good moments. (I liked her in 'Stuid Spoiled Whore Video Playset')

But, other than that I don't think I can name another time where I've liked her.
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MercyMay
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Postby MercyMay » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:25 am

I never really had anything against Wendy. She's not one of my favorites but I think she had some good parts, especially in the first few seasons. I did really like her in 'Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset'. I thought the way she got her dad to actually listen to her was pretty cool.
fattass12
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Postby fattass12 » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:36 am

she may have some lines but not many. she hasnt been used yet in season 10 yet execpt maybe that part in cartoon wars but i dont watch every episode over 1000 times so im not going to notice that little detail. follow that egg and stupid spoiled whore and marjorine she was used as a main character but i think she wont be used that much anymore because isnt wendy based off treys ex.
KennyStanWendyFan
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Postby KennyStanWendyFan » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:47 pm

Wendy also had a small line in Douche and Turd... yeah, I notice lots of little details like that.

But yeah, it's obvious Wendy isn't being used as much these days, but I seriously doubt Matt and Trey are dropping her completely. They still use her whenever they find a reason to. If they do a plot that focuses on female characters (Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset, Marjorine), they'll use Wendy. If they decide to toy with the Stan/Wendy relationship again (Follow That Egg), they'll use her again. They could also potentially use her in one of those liberal activist cause-type episodes... except they rarely do those episodes unless it's for satirical purposes, but... let's say a natural disaster takes place in a third world country. Wendy seems like a likely candidate to donate food and supplies to the people of the country. Wendy has the trait of being an outspoken liberal without being over the top like PETA.

But yeah, Wendy's role on the show has certainly diminished over time, but she's not a forgotten character altogether. She might still play a big part sometime this season as she has in every season except for Season 3. (Although she did have a role in the movie, which came out during Season 3, so I guess that could count.)
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Cerisa_Roz
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Postby Cerisa_Roz » Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:20 pm

I don't know. I wouldn't say she's completely forgotten, but she definitely has faded. In any case, I really don't care as much anymore (I didn't care THAT much to begin with, as in, "OMG WENDY IS GONE OMG BRING HERRR BACK AND MAKE HER A STAR CHARACTER SO BADLY SO MUCH" like how some fans would do with other characters. But yes, I was more disappointed back then with the use, or lack, of Wendy).

In a supplement to the 'cookie-cutter' remark I made about female characters: In a lot of cartoons, you get these screechy, air-headed, vapid types of girls. Sure, some of them may be smart, but they're mostly clouded in the 'airhead' syndrome. Wendy..surprisingly, wasn't like that. Of course, that's not to say all the cartoons I was watching at the time had 'dumb girls' in them. There were some with variety, actually.

Nowadays, the "valley-bitch" attitude seems to be in more. Y'know, the overly-bitchy, valley girlish 'prep' types of characters. Some of those cases wouldn't be bad, except it's that and nothing else. Very flat, and one-note. I like the ones that have more to them, and aren't just cardboard.

In older animation, you'd get the smart girls from time to time, but it seemed the 'damsel in distress/token girl' mentality seemed to overshadow it at times.

Heck, one old series I'm currently watching, the 'token girl' of the nain characters is supposed to be just as competent and tough as the guys, yet we hardly get to see that in action (we do see her kick goon butt a bit, though). She's also the 'genius' and tech wizard, but that gets overshadowed by her screaming and shrieking over bugs, 'scary' things, being generally submissive and vapid, weaker, and basically 'fanservice' a lot of the time (panty/arse shots for all!). It's good for a character to have flaws, but it seems in the case of one like this, the writers didn't know WHAT to do with her. And eventually, it went to the point where she was just 'there'.

Back to SP, though: I've noticed that a few people have complained about 'sexism' in the show, and about there being no positive female characters in it.

I DON'T necessarily agree with all the assessment (ie: "Parker and Stone are seeexxxists! They hate teh wimmin! They think there's nothing positive about girls and boys!"), but I've noticed how the roles of the women characters are compared to the guy ones, and how underdeveloped a few are. I chalk some of that up to most of the 'SP girls' and a lot of grown women characters (besides the moms, Mayor, etc.) being 'filler' and not much else.

You've got a lot more active guy characters. But another thing to keep in mind, is that after Mary Kay Bergman, nothing seems to really be the same with 'her' characters.

That being said, though SP IS written in the 'boys' point of view, it wouldn't hurt to see another 'girls' episode. Who knows, maybe they can prove the "SEXIST" cries WRONG this time. But then, it takes a lot to satisfy some, and sometimes nothing works (You think SP fans are bad? Look at COMICS fans. The REALLY bad ones. They're the most judgmental, hypocritical, loud and obnoxious types I've ever seen. "WAH DC SUX MARVEL WOULD NEVAR DO THAT! DC STANDS 4 DOG CRAP! LOL AMIRITE!?" "WAHHH MARVEL SUX DC WOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT! U R GHEY! MARVEL IS NO "HOUSE OF IDEAS'. MORE LIKE 'HOUSE OF CRAP'! LAWL!" and so on).

Before watching SP, I knew about Mary Kay Bergman's role in it, unfortunately, when it was too late (I recognized the name from other shows, but didn't realize she did so MANY voices in SP, and in animation in general). And when I finally did watch the show in '01, though it had been a few years since her death, I couldn't help but still think how unfortunate it was, as I bought a few tapes of classic SP episodes and watched reruns off Comedy Central (and a mom's friend's old recorded tapes). She really put a lot into the characters, and it shows.

For Mona Marshall, I knew about her for quite a while before watching SP. She was "Izzy" in Digimon, and did quite a few voices in Rainbow Brite and other shows. By the time I watched SP in 2001, I had already known and heard that she was one of the replacement VAs in it. And through season 4 viewings, it creeped me out with how eerily similar "Wendy" sounded to the original Mary Kay voice (though I heard some of Marshall's standard high-pitched voice work in there, as well). Once Wendy began speaking in season 5, though, I got confused and wondered if THAT was really Marshall still (it wasn't. And after the fact, when watching late season 4 reruns, the voice shift in the episodes was jarring enough even after I heard the season 5 voice).

Wendy's pilot VA, Rochelle Leffler (IIRC) is a much more obscure name. I don't know what other shows, if any, she did. I've heard "Karri Turner" attributed to being Wendy's pilot voice from at least one source though, though it seems mostly agreed that it was Leffler who voiced her.

When I was coming up with the VA info ('other roles') on my site, I had to stare at all the roles Mary Kay Bergman had. And then at all of Mona Marshall's various roles. Bergman's list is pretty long as it is, but with Marshall..I got exhausted. The lists (especially the latter) are in no way comprehensive, but all I'll say is..YIKES. But then, most of Marshall's recent stuff is dubbed anime, and there's a LOT of that, so..

(Bit off-topic of a thought: I wonder what other LA-area voice actresses they considered for the roles of the females?)
Novacaine15
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Postby Novacaine15 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:02 pm

Okay okay okay... Wendy is a good character. We need to see her more often. But honestly, Mary Kay Bergman did the best Wendy voice then these new VOs.
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Cerisa_Roz
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Postby Cerisa_Roz » Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:49 pm

I'm just giving input on various subjects of the thread. ie: Wendy's role, the VAs, and female roles in general in animation.

And yes, considering that Mary Kay Bergman was the first VA I heard for Wendy (through tapes bought), the original is always the best. No question about THAT.

As I said before, I can't give much input on her pilot voice actress, except that I think her delivery was too 'tomboyish' for the role. I'm glad they recasted for Bergman.

It's funny how while the other kids had their parents shown (except Clyde at the time. His appeared in season 6) around seasons 3, 4, and 5, Wendy (and Bebe)'s mother only popped up around 6, and her father in season 8 (as did Bebe's).

One of the subjects I was touching on in my last post was how some people consider the show to be sexist towards girls. I was just interested in others' ideas about that (I think it's a bit silly and a stretch to say the show's built on misogyny towards all women). Thoughts?
KennyStanWendyFan
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Postby KennyStanWendyFan » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:14 pm

There are a lot of female stereotypes whenever they do one of those boys vs. girls type episodes, such as Marjorine. It doesn't bother me though, as long as they don't make Wendy out to be a complete ditz, which I find out of character (i.e. Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society. "I'm not paying $20 for these shoes! *giggle*") Wendy, while she has to be a little girly to fit in with the other girls (and once again, I don't mind) is usually the one to speak out when the general idea of "girliness" goes too far (the best example being Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset).

Wendy seems to be the most developed of the young female characters, even if her development has slowed down since Season 5. I do feel that Mary Kay's death has played a part in this, even if it took a little while after her death for Wendy and other female characters to step back. I, too, was disappointed for some time over Wendy's diminishing role on South Park. I wasn't going to let it ruin every non-Wendy episode for me like some fans of other characters do ("Oh my god, Pip wasn't in that episode even though he hasn't been on the show since Season 6, now the episode is ruined for me!") but I was hoping to see Wendy in a positive role again. On December 1, 2004, my wish came true when Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset aired. Wendy has since played a role in Follow That Egg as well, so at the very least, I'm glad that her character isn't completely forgotten. You still see her in the hallways and such, but at least that means she hasn't been dropped. Whenever Matt and Trey do another female-themed episode, we can be guaranteed a starring role for Wendy. However, since the show mostly focuses on the boys, I don't think Wendy will ever again have the prominence she once enjoyed in the first two seasons and the fourth season.

One interesting thing to note is the fact that the female characters besides Wendy and Bebe had no real development to them until just recently. In the early seasons, Wendy would mostly hang out with Stan and the others if she ever did anything. I guess you could say she seemed a bit more tomboyish back then. Either that or she just wanted to be with Stan all the time. It was quite common to see her join up with the boys on an adventure such as in Cartman Gets an Anal Probe or Something You Can Do With Your Finger. Now, she's begun hanging out with the girls more often. Boys stick with other boys and girls stick with other girls. That's why Wendy is no longer as prominent, but that's also why, when Wendy has a role, the other female characters begin to be developed more. It's kinda funny how Wendy's role is smaller, and yet it's allowed those around her (the other females and her parents) to be introduced/developed a bit more than when she played a bigger part on the show.

So yeah... Wendy is quite an interesting character to look into. She might seem obscure, but I have to say she's my favorite secondary character. I wonder if she'll get any roles this season. If so, I hope they're good.
Last edited by KennyStanWendyFan on Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Cerisa_Roz
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Postby Cerisa_Roz » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:12 pm

^Interesting observations :)

I'll admit, I was pretty annoyed at 610 for that 'ditz' reason. And "Raisins" seemed to further shove the character into the dark, more. I briefly considered that maybe she COULD appear again, 'independent' of Stan and all, but knowing how the show works(ed?), I got pessimistic about it and just focused on the older Wendy episodes that 'mattered' to me (It didn't help that my idea got shot down by some of those aforementioned "SP IS SEXIST" types that basically told me to 'give up, it'll never happen'). And it also doesn't help that I hate "Raisins" for the overuse of the damn Goth Kids ('filler' characters if there ever were any!) and Raisins Girls anyway. It felt rushed and flat to me, and seeing so many people going "OH YEAH! This episode should've happened a looong time ago! GOTH KIDS RAWK!" and/or "Screw that ho Wendy! I hope she dies! She'll probably be pregnant and have STDs by the age of fourteen!" (I lurked SPS during the "Raisins" days. God, people were nuts). And of course, it made the grating Stan fangirls get even MORE grating and harder for someone to be a Wendy fan in the chaos of it all..

As for the girls, that's true. Red and Annie (the other two 'main' girls in the class) simply sort of sat around when needed. Except Annie did get a FEW lines ("Bye Kenny" in Tweek Vs. Craig being her most 'notable'. Heh), while Red was pretty damn silent. Bebe would come when needed, which would be in an occasional scene with Wendy, or when there was a group of kids around. Wendy, as you said, usually hung around Stan and the guys. Or with Bebe, when need be.

Come Season 4, Bebe got a tad more prominent, while Wendy once again got a starring role in quite a few episodes (and was fleshed out more in comparison to her early-season attitude. I like "Psycho Wendy" in season 1, but I also like "Normal" Wendy as well).

Season 5 wasn't really a good example for major screentime, other than "Proper Condom Use", but hey, we got to see the other girls get up and do something, for the "Battle Of The Sexes" (purposely capitalized for effect here).

Season 6..I felt that "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society" wasn't much of a 'Bebe' episode, per se, but rather the boys and how they reacted to her. That being said, that was the first time we got some major development for Bebe. And the first time that Red spoke (voiced by Eliza Schneider, naturally), as well as Milly and Esther, who we got to see interact with Wendy and Red. And though Wendy, Bebe, Red, and Annie were the four 'main girls' of the class, I believe this may have been the first episode to explicitly portray them as a group (at the beginning). I liked that, at least. It seems the episode served as a double-edged sword, looking at it now.

I don't recall S7 being ripe with 'girl' moments, though you could count Wendy's appearance (and role) in "Raisins" and the (blegh) Raisins Girls as well.

Now Seasons 8 and 9..ohhh YEAH! THOSE had some great moments. It proves that Wendy doesn't really need to be with Stan for 'classic Wendy' moments (ha to the Stan fangirls and like who went "LOL NOW SHE'S GONE STUPID WENDY! NO MORE WENDY!"), though her role has been reduced a lot more (but then, the S/W thing seemed to have died off BEFORE "Raisins". I was shocked at hearing Raisins' plot, as I thought they killed off the pairing quietly 'off-camera').

"Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset" and "Marjorine" were great ones. We got to see some nice Butters interaction in the latter (Wendy and Butters don't interact much. It's a shame. I thought, when I saw the press release for "Raisins", that Butters' 'girl of his dreams' would be Wendy. I know, right?), and more of the girls.

And as a side note, "Marjorine" (and subsequent "Follow That Egg") reaffirmed that Red was indeed 'RED' and not 'Bertha' (one-time name! Remember, "Milly" got called "Jessie" in that episode as well, and THAT didn't stick!). You wouldn't believe the canon nazi that kept screaming at me and others to call Red "Bertha" and how I was 'crapping on' the show by not doing it. Freakin' psycho (I've had to deal with this 'girl' quite a few times. It's nuts). I hope she had to eat her words with hot sauce, and that they tasted like crap. But I digress.

It does annoy me how some of the female characters (I'm talking some of the classic women ones, not just the girls in general and filler girls) seem to be interchangeable lately, but I'm not going to cry "SEXIST" at any given opportunity. I've learned to appreciate what Wendy bits we do get, the good ones at least!

Wendy is my favorite sideliner/secondary, though characters like Tweek come second. On the other hand, my favorite out of the 'filler' classmates? DEFINITELY Red. I just like her.
KennyStanWendyFan
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Postby KennyStanWendyFan » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:06 am

Wendy, as you all know, is my favorite secondary character. I would say my next favorite is Butters (despite overuse these last few seasons), and then Tweek. My favorite filler character... I guess I'll go with Clyde. He's been pretty funny lately. Token's kinda cool too.

You're right about Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society being a double-edged sword. I did kinda like how it established Wendy's little circle of friends similar to the one that Stan and the boys have.

I'm still interested in the idea of a Butters/Wendy pairing. If it's only a one-time experimental episode, it would be neat.
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