The Official Kenny Discussion Thread

Discuss South Park characters with all your friends, buddies and guys.

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Aimsireil
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Postby Aimsireil » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:01 am

Whew, got a lot to talk about here...

Iceiwynd, although I loved the old designs, I just don't think the whole thing with non-detailed characters working with detail works well. And I'm not just talking about a few more emotion lines on somebody's face. I'm talking about complete art changes... the kind that has been evident on the show. I don't want complete changes to the designs (if you thought that), I just want things to be consistent enough to keep my attention on the plot, and not on the stupid little details of the animation.

Also to Iceiwynd: It is easy (I originally wrote "easty") enough to understand Kenny with his hood on, however now that the show is famous, M&T probably don't want to risk losing any fans by giving him Kenny the long and complicated lines he used to have, and are therefore giving him short and simple 1 to 2 word lines that anyone can understand. If he could be understood, he could be worked into more plotlines.


CartmansCuzzin, the "how could things get any worse" phrase fits this situation well. Although I don't think you fully understand the situation here... Kenny rarely dies in episodes any more. And you're right, the character changes to the show have already been massive, why not make another one? I don't want to have to wait for the next movie (if ever) to see Kenny get a good role again.

A black gay French Jewish president, more like it (although good for him/her if he/she becomes prez).


Mr. Skeptic (as of this point I will call you that), your obsession is prrrrety obvious (though not in a bad way, of course). I actually don't think that dehooding Kenny and killing him at different times would work, because then the show would have to acknowledge that something completely paranormal is going on (although Cartman already did this in "Cartmanland"... that annoyed me to no end). And we know that they're not going to start killing him at a regular interval again... because M&T got tired of the gag, and it was getting old anyways, ergo it was practically taken out of the show. And the gag where Kenny said horrible obscenities that were muffled got old, and was also practically taken out of the show. So why not get rid of the gag where it's a big deal to see Kenny's face? That's getting old, too.

And although the death in "The Jeffersons" was noble, it was still sickening to just watch a young boy die, with nobody acting like it was a big deal. The least they could have done was left out the bloodflow.


UH, who's Willy Nilly? I've never seen him in a MAD before. Anyhow, it would be a step backwards, and the show appears to only be moving forward (not saying that's all good).
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iceiwynd
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Postby iceiwynd » Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:27 pm

Aimsireil wrote:Also to Iceiwynd: It is easy (I originally wrote "easty") enough to understand Kenny with his hood on, however now that the show is famous, M&T probably don't want to risk losing any fans by giving him Kenny the long and complicated lines he used to have, and are therefore giving him short and simple 1 to 2 word lines that anyone can understand. If he could be understood, he could be worked into more plotlines.


I don't think it's a matter about "risking" anything with their fans (since when have they really cared?). I think it's more of a matter of they have no clue what the hell to do with Kenny, so they give him a couple of words to say per episode (if even that) as if that makes up for it. He's one of the four main boys, and so he hangs out with them (except for those episodes where he's randomly missing, and I have not yet found one person who isn't at least slightly pissed about that aspect of certain episodes, such as Two Days or Smug Alert), and so he gets to say a few words. And I think that's the most they can honestly think of to do with him, because before his main gag was dying. I don't see what's so horrible about making him die again, because if that's the only bit of character he really has, other than being poor and slightly pervier, maybe something could at least stem off of the dying thing.

And on a separate point, I don't see how Kenny wearing a hood is a "gag". It's part of his character design: and I'm still against doing drastic character design changes that have been in place for ten years. The occasionaly de-hooding, fine, whatever. That's not bad. But fully taking his hood off, I have a problem with, just as I have a problem with updating Stan, Kyle, and Cartman's looks. Any show that changes the appearance of its title characters after this long, I'm going to lose a lot of respect for - even moreso than for the annoying underuse of Kenny's character.
Aimsireil
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:07 pm

Postby Aimsireil » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:10 pm

^I'm pretty sure that they care, that's why the show has a much broader audience today than it used to. But you're probably right, they may just not want to use him. Notice how the characters Stan, Kyle, Cartman, Token, and Butters are all based off of real-life (Cartman=kind of) people, which therefore makes them come with a built-in personality, and therefore making them easier to work into a plot. I've heard that Kenny is based off of a poor kid that Trey or Matt knew in grade school, or something. But they haven't seen this kid for years. Kenny's personality needs to begin to be developed outside of these boundaries; otherwise he will end up with all the other non-reality-based characters, like Craig and Clyde and most of the girl characters.

And Kenny's hood is a gag, or at least people never seeing his face and never hearing his voice clearly are. Like, even when the hood is off, his face is always obscured by something or another. And his voice is never heard with the hood off. But M&T probably want to end this gag (along with just about every other gag, lol) as evident in "The Jeffersons" and in "The Losing Edge".

And please, forget what I said about character designs, it was a stupid idea.
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juggaloblaine
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Postby juggaloblaine » Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:00 pm

I'm back! Long time no post :D


I agree with Iceywind M & T just can't think of anything to do with but there are tons of things

Give him a death related story (BFF)

Have him join into the group or give ideas (Sucubus,Volcano)
.....What......
Infusions
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Postby Infusions » Sat Jan 06, 2007 3:56 pm

It's not really all that easy to write in a character who's not all that understandable when speaking long sentences in a script and still make it outrageously funny.

Matt and Trey are still able to pull off some jokes with him, and I commend them for that that at least, they're trying with Kenny. Such as Tsst:

CARTMAN: Well what do you guys expect me to do? Stay at Kenny's house?! I'm not staying with poor people! [Silence] Alright, I'll stay with Kenny. Let's go, man.

KENNY: [f*ck you.]

Or Good Times with Weapons. Let's not forget who was the one who threw the ninja star in Butters' eye. :D

But sometimes, he just doesn't fit in episodes, so they leave him out. It's the same with every single character, they don't fit, leave them out. It's not only Kenny.

CARTOON WARS pt. 2: Stan was absent.
STANLEY'S CUP: Cartman was absent.
TRAPPED IN THE CLOSET: Cartman, Kyle, and Kenny were only in that episode for a brief amount of time.
GO GOD GO XII: Stan was absent [He was, right? I'm sure of that.]
MISS TEACHER BANGS A BOY: Stan only has four lines.

So on and so fourth. It's not only Kenny that's absent in episode, Trey and Matt do it with all the characters. Kenny just happens to be one of the four main boys who's absent the most.

And odd enough, most fans seem to love Kenny. I'm still trying to figure out the math on that one. o_O
Aimsireil
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Postby Aimsireil » Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:44 pm

^That's why people think he should be made understandable.

The only reason Kenny said anything there was so Cartman could make a poor people joke. And Kenny only said two words. Two syllables, even.

The thing in "Good Times" was funny.

Stan was in "Cartoon Wars Part I", and "Cartoon Wars Part II" is just an extension of that episode.
In Stanley's Cup, Cartman and Kenny were absent because it was a Stan episode. Kyle only had 2 lines.
"TITC" was also a Stan episode.
Stan and Kenny were in the first part of "Go God Go".


But anyways, I'm missing the point here. The point is that although Stan, Kyle and Cartman are left out of some episodes, Kenny is left out of many more episodes than the other boys, as you said.

People love Kenny because he used to be the reason people would watch the show (I'm serious, his gag is what made the show popular, if not famous).

Anyways, people are wondering why he is left out of episodes he could easily be put into... like "Two Days Before" or "Hell on Earth 2006"
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CartmansCuzzin
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Postby CartmansCuzzin » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:20 am

The difference between Kenny's absences and the rest of the boys' absences are that not only is he discarded from the show the most but whenever he is present, he has no meaningful purpose of being it at all. His role seems to get dimmer each season and I'm sick of it y'all. It's like he's not there when he is there (confusing). I mean he was always the most unoticable child of the four anyway but because of that being the reason makes it unfair for him.

All we can do is pray and hope for Kenny to be revived for the 11th season.

And Ice, I agree with you 100%! Main characters along with their images should NEVER be changed but let's be foreal...it might be the only solution for him to regain his popularity back. Kenny should be an exception as far as that topic goes.
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Aimsireil
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Postby Aimsireil » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:22 am

I mentioned this earlier, I believe, in the Cartman thread, but a reason why Kenny isn't being used as much may be because he is basically a very unrealistic character. This is because realistically people don't resurrect, and hoods don't muffle words. I dunno. It's just a theory, attack it, not me.

I'm still wondering whether I would want the character designs to change or not... the characters themselves have changed so much, I really think it could be good for the show to change up the kids' outfits and hair (but the heads should stay the same shape... if they were different that would suck). And I don't mean completely change the outfits, of course, just make them more realistic like the clothes the boys were wearing in "Preschool". Those things were awesome, and you could see their hair.
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DevilAngel16
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Postby DevilAngel16 » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:29 pm

Aimsireil wrote:I mentioned this earlier, I believe, in the Cartman thread, but a reason why Kenny isn't being used as much may be because he is basically a very unrealistic character. This is because realistically people don't resurrect, and hoods don't muffle words. I dunno. It's just a theory, attack it, not me.


Well, yeah, but just look at Cartman. He's definitely an urealistic character. I mean, how often do you see a nine-year-old boy in real life concoting a devious plot to get some teenage boy to eat his own parents? (That was just an example.) As for Kenny, yes people don't resurrect themselves or speak muffled on a daily basis, but considering that he has quite a few unrealistic traits, wouldn't that mean that you'd be able to do even more with his character? After all, you could come up with plenty more ideas if the character goes beyond human like qualities as oppossed to being restricted to only realistic characteristics.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that Matt and Trey can basically do anything they want with Kenny, yet they still have problems coming up with ideas for him. I dunno, maybe they're having trouble coming up with new stuff for him, or maybe they just can't be bothered because they have more important things to focus on. Either way, Kenny could still very easily be developed if he was given a little more attention once in a while.
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iluvkenny400
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Postby iluvkenny400 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:09 am

DevilAngel16 wrote:
Aimsireil wrote:I mentioned this earlier, I believe, in the Cartman thread, but a reason why Kenny isn't being used as much may be because he is basically a very unrealistic character. This is because realistically people don't resurrect, and hoods don't muffle words. I dunno. It's just a theory, attack it, not me.


Well, yeah, but just look at Cartman. He's definitely an urealistic character. I mean, how often do you see a nine-year-old boy in real life concoting a devious plot to get some teenage boy to eat his own parents? (That was just an example.) As for Kenny, yes people don't resurrect themselves or speak muffled on a daily basis, but considering that he has quite a few unrealistic traits, wouldn't that mean that you'd be able to do even more with his character? After all, you could come up with plenty more ideas if the character goes beyond human like qualities as oppossed to being restricted to only realistic characteristics.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to get across is that Matt and Trey can basically do anything they want with Kenny, yet they still have problems coming up with ideas for him. I dunno, maybe they're having trouble coming up with new stuff for him, or maybe they just can't be bothered because they have more important things to focus on. Either way, Kenny could still very easily be developed if he was given a little more attention once in a while.

Yeah,I think they should have an episode where kenny takes his hood off a few times and talks. A main charictorr deseves deseves attention, you're right DevilAngel16
Aimsireil
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Postby Aimsireil » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:39 am

Would it really be that hard to finally dehood him? I'm sure M&T could think of a way to do it if they sat around for five minutes and thought about it... I mean, they haven't done too much of that for years, but they could probably get good at it again.

But the creators appear to not care about Kenny at all now. I finally concluded this after watching "The Losing Edge"... this is because in the group of all the parents, Mr. and Mrs. Testaburger are present, but the McCormicks aren't. Why on earth would the Testaburgers be there? Wendy wasn't even on the team! Kenny was! His parents should have been there! That's like us Kenny fans getting spat in the face.

When was the last time we even saw his parents? Like in "Ladder to Heaven" or something.
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iceiwynd
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Postby iceiwynd » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:45 pm

They fought in Best Friends Forever, and Stuart was in Smug Alert - that's off the top of my head. If I actually thought about it, I'd be able to come up with more-- oh wait, they were also fighting in the background of Make Love, Not Warcraft.

So they're still around.

I still don't want Kenny dehooded. That's part of changing a character design that's been, more or less, present for ten years. It's just unsettling/not right/whatever you want to call it. There's plenty he can still do with a hood on. Look at Fat Camp. There are more examples, but this is just off of the top of my head, too. He doesn't need a clear head to get better roles. He just needs more attention paid to him.

I would not say that Matt and Trey aren't applying thought - you kinda, uh, need that in order to create other episodes. And like it or not, but some people actually found those episodes to be rather good/intelligent. Re, thought actually was put into them. The problem is they just aren't thinking of Kenny, but saying they haven't actually "thought" for years? Come on.
Aimsireil
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Postby Aimsireil » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:04 am

^Mm... about the parents... I think that I was actually mistaken when I said the Testaburgers came to the Little League games, rather, it was probably the Valmers (Jimmy's parents).

I'm sort of saying that he isn't having any attention paid to him because of the hood, because that makes him difficult to understand or show emotion, and therefore difficult to give a large role. And yeah, his parents are around, and his brother had a cameo in "The Return of Chef", I was just annoyed because I thought it was the Testaburgers who were with the team.

And don't you dare misquote me! I said they haven't thought much for the last couple years. You're implying that I said they haven't been thinking at all (that was sort of a joke, anyways. Of course they've been thinking).
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Infusions
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Postby Infusions » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:46 am

Aimsireil wrote:LOL MISQUOTE


...

Yeah, so anyway. I got an idea. TEST TIME!

Okay, here's the thing. You have a week to make an episode. You need to finish the script completely within three-four days. Many fans demand that this episode be centered around Kenny, so you decide to be nice and treat them to it.

Make an episode right now that's at least 17 pages long [I'm not entirely certain how long a script for a 25 minutes episode would be] within' four days.

Come up with a plot, make it all in-character, make it as funny as can be, etc etc.

READY, GO! :0

[And don't start replying to me saying 'Yes, but Matt and Trey have done this for years!' or something irritating like that. This is a test just to try and get you guys to be placed in their shoes. I wanna see how well you're able to do it and how easy you think it is.]
What's the difference between a 7-11 and a smurf?

A 7-11 is a 24-hour convenience store and a smurf is a small blue fictional cartoon character.
Kyle the Skeptic
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Postby Kyle the Skeptic » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:12 am

Infusions wrote:Okay, here's the thing. You have a week to make an episode. You need to finish the script completely within three-four days. Many fans demand that this episode be centered around Kenny, so you decide to be nice and treat them to it.

Make an episode right now that's at least 17 pages long [I'm not entirely certain how long a script for a 25 minutes episode would be] within' four days.

Come up with a plot, make it all in-character, make it as funny as can be, etc etc.

Well, back when I started writing fanfics last year, I was able to come out with several of them, each within less than a week's time. They were episode length too, not just oneshot, and they were in script format. I don't make any claims of being comparable in any way to M&T, but the point is, it can be done.

As for Kenny, he's my favorite character too, in case it wasn't obvious enough from my sig.

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