It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby SkankusHuntimusXLII » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:59 pm

FilipoSooa wrote:
SkankusHuntimusXLII wrote:
FilipoSooa wrote:
I bet you remember The List episode where Bebe tampered with the list of The Boys ranked from cutest to ugliest, pitting Clyde at the top just so Bebe can have some free shoes because his dad runs a shoe store, while pitting Kyle at the bottom and the ugliest for petulant reasons, other than making him a casualty of Bebe's grand scheme to only date Clyde just so she can get some free shoes.
Yeah Wendy must be pissed off at Bebe still
So that's why I thought that since Cartman knew Kyle was the ugliest boy on Bebe's corrupted list of cutest boys, there was no way Cartman and Butters were gonna stop antagonizing Kyle for being supposedly ugly because we know how much Cartman hates Kyle; so Cartman and Butters should've just appeared from out of nowhere while Wendy and Bebe were fighting, which Bebe wielded a firearms pistol. Maybe then, Cartman and Butters could've helped Bebe fend off Wendy, prompting Stan and Kyle to join in, turning Wendy vs Bebe into Wendy/Kyle/Stan vs. Bebe/Cartman/Butters in a three-on-three match.

BTW, I think it's safe to say that the real reason why Bebe isn't featured much these days is because the voice actor that played her (Jennifer Howell) used to be an executive producer for South Park Studios, before Jennifer Howell got scooped up by FOX. Originally, Bebe was voiced by the late Mary Kay Bergman like the rest of the female characters. After Bergman's tragic death in late 1999, we see Mona Marshall voicing Sheila Broflovski and other deep voiced female characters, with Eliza Schneider and later April Stewart voicing high voiced female characters such as Liane Cartman, Wendy Testaburger, etc. while Jennifer Howell exclusively voiced Bebe.
I have watched all episodes old and new. And I have to say I prefer the current female voices, in the older seasons they were just to high pitched, way more high pitched than any girl I have heard.
If my spelling/grammar/overall writing sucked. I'm sorry but english is not my native language.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:14 pm

SkankusHuntimusXLII wrote:
FilipoSooa wrote:
SkankusHuntimusXLII wrote:
Yeah Wendy must be pissed off at Bebe still
So that's why I thought that since Cartman knew Kyle was the ugliest boy on Bebe's corrupted list of cutest boys, there was no way Cartman and Butters were gonna stop antagonizing Kyle for being supposedly ugly because we know how much Cartman hates Kyle; so Cartman and Butters should've just appeared from out of nowhere while Wendy and Bebe were fighting, which Bebe wielded a firearms pistol. Maybe then, Cartman and Butters could've helped Bebe fend off Wendy, prompting Stan and Kyle to join in, turning Wendy vs Bebe into Wendy/Kyle/Stan vs. Bebe/Cartman/Butters in a three-on-three match.

BTW, I think it's safe to say that the real reason why Bebe isn't featured much these days is because the voice actor that played her (Jennifer Howell) used to be an executive producer for South Park Studios, before Jennifer Howell got scooped up by FOX. Originally, Bebe was voiced by the late Mary Kay Bergman like the rest of the female characters. After Bergman's tragic death in late 1999, we see Mona Marshall voicing Sheila Broflovski and other deep voiced female characters, with Eliza Schneider and later April Stewart voicing high voiced female characters such as Liane Cartman, Wendy Testaburger, etc. while Jennifer Howell exclusively voiced Bebe.
I have watched all episodes old and new. And I have to say I prefer the current female voices, in the older seasons they were just to high pitched, way more high pitched than any girl I have heard.
Here's the thing. Jennifer Howell leaving South Park Studios for FOX in 2008 and later to Paramount in 2013 really did hurt Bebe's role, to the point that she's hardly on anymore. Not even on the serialized seasonal episodes both current and future potential one-season storyline arcs. That would've meant Jennifer Howell would've had to come back full-time for Bebe to have a seasonal storyline arc revolving around her. To be fair, I think Jennifer Howell's recent ventures into FOX and Paramount had to have been a mixed bag at best, since her critics assumed that Howell was nothing without Trey Parker and Matt Stone's creative genius brainpowers, while her loyal supporters recognized that Jennifer Howell is one of the few Executive Vice Presidents who can cut through the volatile work environment politics, as in not buying into the BS that several directors tend to do in the acting world.

As for character trajectories and roles: I think Kyle and Butters took Wendy's old role in the earlier seasons as the 'level-headed child who is a voice of reason', although Kyle is more the voice of reason albeit much preachier than Wendy, and Butters basically took Wendy's old role as the best other South Park Elementary School student after The Boys.

Wendy's again the most prominent female character since The Hobbit put her back in a new light, basically playing the role that Bebe used to have. Mr. Mackey made her change her feminist views in The Hobbit (Season 17, 2013) with help from Kanye West and the whole internal issue of having to use photoshop.

Wendy may have taken Bebe's role as the most notable female character, but Token surpassed Bebe as South Park Elementary's second other kid after The Boys and Butters. The rest of Craig's Gang (Craig, Tweek, Jimmy, Timmy, Clyde) besides Token were more secondary characters, since the key students of South Park Elementary to look, watch and see are now: Cartman, Kyle, Butters, Stan, Token, Wendy and sometimes Kenny.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby Big-Will » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:46 am

ICYMI, Jennifer Howell is back voicing Bebe this season. ;)
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:21 am

Big-Will wrote:ICYMI, Jennifer Howell is back voicing Bebe this season. ;)
Wow, I thought Jennifer Howell left South Park Studios to pursue other endeavors, as in trying her luck with FOX in 2008 and later Paramount Pictures in 2013. I guess a mixed bag of her work with FOX and Paramount Pictures is a mixed bag, hence The List (2007) with Bebe's villainous role in that episode being a way to write her off for good.

And then there are character trajectory roles from the very beginning, Wendy being the 'child voice of reason' from the earlier seasons. Then you had Butters and Token as mere background characters along with Craig, Clyde, Tweek, Red, Annie and Heidi plus Timmy and Jimmy never existed until the 2000s. The best other children characters after The Boys back then were Wendy, Bebe and Pip; so the key children to watch for the first 3-4 seasons were: Stan, Kyle, Cartman, Kenny, Wendy, Bebe and Pip.

By the 2000s, the character trajectory roles change with Wendy losing her popularity value by being pushed to the background in favor of Kyle going from being a carbon copy of Stan into a glorified 'child voice of reason', with Butters taking part of Wendy's place as the best other character after The Boys, and Bebe taking Wendy's place as the best popular female child character. By then the key children character you now had to watch from seasons 5-13 were: Cartman, Kyle, Stan, Kenny, Butters, Tweek, Bebe, Timmy, Jimmy and Ike.

Come the 2010s, the character trajectory roles once again change. And now Bebe was no longer the show's best popular female child character, because by The Hobbit, Wendy re-took that role. So Wendy may have been worked back into the mix as a key child character, but she's still not the 'child voice of reason' nor the best other children character after The Boys, so she's only just gonna be the best female child character. With Bebe being pushed to the side after The List, as the second best other child character after the best other child character and The Boys, I think Token surpassed Bebe as the show's second best other child character. These days, the key children character to watch are: Cartman, Kyle, Butters, Wendy, Token and Heidi. Whereas Cartman and Kyle remained as vital to the show as ever as the main primary characters, Stan and Kenny have lost a lot of popularity value for several years now.

The top fully-fledged protagonist of the show is still Kyle since 2001-02 to this very day, while Stan takes the cake for the early seasons from Season 1 (1997-98) through Season 5 (2001).
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby Big-Will » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:09 am

Howell was also among the voices twice in 2009, once in 2012, and once in 2013.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:33 am

Big-Will wrote:Howell was also among the voices twice in 2009, once in 2012, and once in 2013.
Whew. Once in Cartman Finds Love (2012) and The Hobbit (2013), although the former episode was more about Token and the newcomer Nichole Daniels, and the latter episode was centered around Wendy being jealous and those episodes were hardly about Bebe herself. I mean, if South Park fans remembered Wendy only for her actions in The Hobbit, well I guess she is definitely not someone who should always be held in high regard all the time. Wendy was definitely at her worst in that episode, and Mr. Mackey was the one to punish her and threaten to send her away to Jelly School, and nobody ever sees Wendy getting punished by Principal Victoria. Look at how Wendy acted: she assumed Bebe had acne, when I don't ever see Bebe having acne.

Even her fight against Eric Cartman in Breast Cancer Show Ever, her victory over Cartman was too hollow. Many people expected Cartman to win the fight, just because he's more composed in fights than Wendy. Somehow Wendy beat him, with Principal Victoria's support, and with Butters turning against Cartman midway through the fight.

I think Kyle has always been like the male version of Wendy since Season 6 (2002), since Butters developed as a happy-go-lucky innocent child who could also be a loyal Cartman lackey. Butters replaced Wendy as the show's best other South Park Elementary School student after The Boys, but he's not the voice of reason. The child voice of reason is now Kyle's job, along with taking Stan's place as the top fully-fledged protagonist (albeit far more preachier than the laid-back Stan Marsh). The Boys gang after Season 5-6 should've been Stan, Cartman, Kenny, Kyle, Ike, Butters, Tweek and Bebe; with Craig's Gang being composed of Craig, Clyde, Token, Wendy, Red, Annie, Jimmy and Timmy.

Speaking of Jelly School, I think Kyle could also be a candidate for that school too. When it comes to standing up to Eric Cartman, Stan is smart enough to avoid causing further potential conflict with Cartman, unlike Kyle. Kyle keeps getting himself into scrap battles with Cartman, because Stan doesn't rely on thinking with pent-up emotional charges or being a political activist. Stan's a logical thinker, whereas Kyle decision-making/thinking skills are a little too hasty, see how quick Kyle takes to think of something. There is a reason why Cartman gets along with Stan when the latter is away from Kyle.

In other words, I wish Bebe would've taken Wendy's place as the main female character of the child characters to be honest.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby mario88 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:19 pm

Filiposooa, i couldn't disagree more about Wendy in the episode "The Hobbit". She was great there, she was able to see and understand a thing that others couldn't see: image is often replacing reality. Unfortunately for her, she kind of played the part of the Greek prophet Kassandra: she was saying the truth, but nobody could see it. I agree with you that in some regard she is a male version of Kyle, because they are the two "intellectuals" in the series. so maybe Kyle could have understood her, but for some reason he didn't play an important role in that episode. I mean, I don't see jealously and what should she be jealous for after all? It's not like she's ugly, she is good-looking in fact. as for Bebe's acne, we should simply assume that Bebe does have acne but we can't see it because of the way characters are drawn (why the hell should Wendy lie about something that would be verifiably not true?)
Last edited by mario88 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:59 pm

mario88 wrote:Filiposooa, i couldn't disagree more about Wendy in the episode "The Hobbit". She was great there, she was able to see and understand a thing that others couldn't see: image is often replacing reality. Unfortunately for her, she kind of played the part of the Greek prophet Kassandra: she was saying the truth, but nobody could see it. I agree with you that in some regard she is a female version of Kyle, because they are the two "intellectuals" in the series. so maybe Kyle could have understood her, but for some reason he didn't play an important role in that episode. I mean, I don't see jealously and what should she be jealous for after all? It's not like she's ugly, she is good-looking in fact. as for Bebe's acne, we should simply assume that Bebe does have acne but we can't see it because of the way characters are drawn (why the hell should Wendy lie about something that would be verifiably not true?)
@mario88 : If Wendy tried to debunk the notion that image is often replacing reality, then why did Mr. Mackey threaten to reprimand Wendy for crossing the fine line between feminist and activist plus send her to Jelly School? And plus, why was Butters shaken in tears after Wendy was basically dissing Lisa Berger and everyone else? It doesn't matter if image replaces reality. Future generations simply move on and get on with the rest of their lives without over-dwelling on small simple incidents too much.

Wendy may be the smartest and the girl with the brains (albeit with an over-the-top touch of vain and envy combined to make her unbearable), but even then, her way of thinking is not exactly the way to deal with things here. Same goes for Kyle. But if you have a look at Raisins (2003), you have already seen that Bebe informed Stan that Wendy dumped him in favor of Token. Although I'm not blaming Token for any of this, it was Wendy's decision to break up with Stan that caused him to go join the Goth Kids and act emo. Even Kyle couldn't be good at reasoning for Stan to ditch the Goth Kids (Michael, Pete, Firkle and Henrietta), and it took until after Butters admitted that he would rather be a crybaby kind person than a silly depressed guy, which helped Stan finally move on from The Goth Kids so he can go back to normal, except he's moved on from Wendy.

Then again, I don't watch South Park for Wendy, or for Kyle, in general, for those matters already stated above alone. I didn't become a South Park fan overnight by following moral crusader type characters, because I came to watch South Park for the likes of Cartman, Stan, Kenny, Butters, Bebe, Randy, Uncle Jimbo, Liane, Chef (R.I.P.), Token, Mr. Mackey, Mr. Garrison, Craig, Tweek, Clyde, Jimmy and Timmy because at least those guys are way more entertaining to watch, add on the fact that these guys are NOT exactly outright moral crusader extremists like Kyle and Wendy. Even Kyle's more of a moral crusader than his own mother Sheila, whose biggest role was as a foil to The Boys in the 1999 movie South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut for the boys watching Terrance & Phillip, and learning toilet humor and profanities. At least Kyle's mother Sheila calmed down in later years, just to make sure that Kyle can deal with her much easier, and that Sheila nowadays is more loving and caring. Sheila mellowed, Kyle didn't.

When it comes to female South Park student characters, Bebe is more laid back and chilled about life than Wendy. I appreciate that Bebe (according to her bio) wants to grow up to be a hard-working smart lawyer than ending up like her full-on party animal mother, but at least Bebe doesn't act like an extremist of the moral crusaders kind. Bebe's vain and supposed superficial aura I find harmless, because at least nobody (especially not me) gets upset when Bebe acts superficial, Bebe's not really harming anyone. Except for Wendy, who takes herself too seriously to the point that her charitable causes are all for nothing, and she loses credibility the more she tries to put a stop to supposedly fake stuff.

The Hobbit (2013) to me now overrates the support Wendy had from Principal Victoria to beat Cartman senseless, and makes me regret having Wendy win over Cartman, now thinking that Cartman should've never lost the fight, let alone a bloody mess at Wendy's hand. Sadly, the Lisa Berger/photoshop incident was not the first time I lost a lot of respect for her. It was her breaking up with Stan for the first time in favor of Token in Raisins that's another black mark I have for Wendy, not to mention: Wendy acting all jealous about Ms. Ellen stealing Stan away from her, when in reality, Ms. Ellen never tried to outright lust over Stan and subsequently getting Iraqi soldiers to fire Ms. Ellen straight towards the sun so I find Ms. Ellen to be innocent in Tom's Rhinoplasty (1997-98), plus Wendy getting all defensive when it comes to Cartman. Cartman never wanted to mock Wendy's breast cancer report, in fact Cartman actually helped us and the other South Park viewers shine a light on the kind of person that Wendy is.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby mario88 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:43 pm

i can't believe we are even having this conversation... if you really think that Wendy acted out of jealously in "The Hobbit", you entirely missed the point of the episode.

there is literally nothing that justifies your theory. the episode doesn't show a girl who is significantly better-looking than wendy, or has a very handsome boyfriend she could be jealous of and nobody is trying to steal stan away from her. And when wendy is jealous, she shows it, like in "tom's rhinoplasty" and in "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society".

Mackey calls her jealous/jelly/jel one time because he arrives at the wrong moment (that's quite obvious) and the other times because, like all the others, he can't quite understand Wendy's point: he says that outward appearence shouldn't be the only thing that matters about women, but that was wendy's point all along.

she tells butters that kim kardashian manipulates her image and in doing so she "makes average girls feel horrible about themselves". She tries to encourage the girls to be more self-confident, so of course she's angry when she sees all her female friends rely on their image, a fake image at that. And when she lists all the physical imperfections of the girls, including her own, she means that nobody is perfect but that's ok, because we don't have to be or appear perfect to feel good about ourselves.

if you don't like wendy that's another thing, but whatever opinion one may have about her, she wasn't jealous in "The Hobbit". but since wendy is just a person and not a suoerhero, she finally surrenders to the pressures of society.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:11 am

mario88 wrote:i can't believe we are even having this conversation... if you really think that Wendy acted out of jealously in "The Hobbit", you entirely missed the point of the episode.

there is literally nothing that justifies your theory. the episode doesn't show a girl who is significantly better-looking than wendy, or has a very handsome boyfriend she could be jealous of and nobody is trying to steal stan away from her. And when wendy is jealous, she shows it, like in "tom's rhinoplasty" and in "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society".

Mackey calls her jealous/jelly/jel one time because he arrives at the wrong moment (that's quite obvious) and the other times because, like all the others, he can't quite understand Wendy's point: he says that outward appearence shouldn't be the only thing that matters about women, but that was wendy's point all along.

she tells butters that kim kardashian manipulates her image and in doing so she "makes average girls feel horrible about themselves". She tries to encourage the girls to be more self-confident, so of course she's angry when she sees all her female friends rely on their image, a fake image at that. And when she lists all the physical imperfections of the girls, including her own, she means that nobody is perfect but that's ok, because we don't have to be or appear perfect to feel good about ourselves.

if you don't like wendy that's another thing, but whatever opinion one may have about her, she wasn't jealous in "The Hobbit". but since wendy is just a person and not a suoerhero, she finally surrenders to the pressures of society.
What about the other times when Wendy beat up Cartman on the school playground and leaving him out cold in a pool of his own blood, and the fact that Wendy had a bunch of Iraqi soldiers take Ms. Ellen away and place her into the rocket to be shot up into the sun just to get Stan back, because she thought Ms. Ellen was stealing Stan, even though Ms. Ellen was innocent in this?
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby jamespuppolo » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:05 am

I have to say that Wendy in “The Hobbit” was jealous of Lisa. Wendy is so extrovert as we see her try and take the lead all the time. When she is with the four boys in the past she would gain a shining star role be her cute talk and actions.

I felt like she when with the four boys was defended and protected and free from any tarnishing of her being the best on screen in early seasons. So with the Bebe boobs episode we see Wendy not the best on screen in the eyes of her peers and so she assimilates to fit in after protest by getting boob implants.

When Wendy is not the best on screen with her social groups it is now to have her have a hissy fit and if she can’t turn people to her side with that she joins the one that out smarted her in her appearance/control game.

A lot of Wendy in the past was her doing cute things and songs and scenes and they make her lovable and since she on screen never had any competition, she was the most loved girl kid character. Now with ‘the Hobbit’ it had Wendy on screen but someone one was better. It starts out with her as the coolest as head cheerleader. She was winning and being the lead girl and so she would get her way all the time as she was like alpha female.

The joke in “The Hobbit” was it was all on appearance but this is told more when Wendy rats out how she ponders all the other girls and even boys short comings. This showed how she is like the evil queen from Snow White. She sits and thinks of others appearance issues and makes sure she does good with hers so she is the fairest but never tells others how to better themselves unless she is in a pickle of losing her power over others.

So in “The Hobbit she finds fake pics are the new hot. They decided to have that play out but the end is she caves because she can still be hot and get a boy or whatever her end goal is, which we at least know is having people think she looks good. Also there is that her leadership seems build around appearance and so if Lisa looks better by pic than she loses powers in her groups which she is all about her social position.

Its playing on how appearance is how who the leader of a group of friends or people is picked. I know intelligence is more normal for adults but looks do play a lot in kids’ lives and if someone looks bad they are bullied. Success can come just from looks and not talent.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby Big-Will » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:25 am

For a jealous girl, she certainly helped Butters out with Lisa. :lol:

Wendy has no reason to be jealous - she has Stan. But she wanted to get through to Butters that even Kim Kardashian doesn't look like a goddess all the time, and that he was being shallow about looks, so she decided to make Lisa as hot as Kim. Butters went for it, and apparently so did the other boys. This is not what Wendy wanted to say. All she wanted to say was
Wendu wrote:People should be okay with the way they look! I have pimples on my forehead! My bottom teeth are crooked! So what?!
Why do girls have to be pretty all the time? Why do boys only go for the pretty girls? Ain't nothing wrong with plain or ugly ones!
Wendu wrote:See, the problem with having fake pictures of yourself is that you start to believe in your own bullsh*t! This has gone way too far! And if society won't fix it, I will!
But she couldn't. And if you can't fix 'em, join 'em. Which she did.
FilipoSooa wrote:In other words, I wish Bebe would've taken Wendy's place as the main female character of the child characters to be honest.
Which is the only reason this thread exists. :) Sure, Bebe has had an episode or two revolve around her, but she has never been the main girl. That won't change.
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Re: It's been nearly a decade (10 years) since South Park had an episode focused on Bebe as a prominent character

Postby FilipoSooa » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:09 am

Big-Will wrote:For a jealous girl, she certainly helped Butters out with Lisa. :lol:

Wendy has no reason to be jealous - she has Stan. But she wanted to get through to Butters that even Kim Kardashian doesn't look like a goddess all the time, and that he was being shallow about looks, so she decided to make Lisa as hot as Kim. Butters went for it, and apparently so did the other boys. This is not what Wendy wanted to say. All she wanted to say was
Wendu wrote:People should be okay with the way they look! I have pimples on my forehead! My bottom teeth are crooked! So what?!
Why do girls have to be pretty all the time? Why do boys only go for the pretty girls? Ain't nothing wrong with plain or ugly ones!
Wendu wrote:See, the problem with having fake pictures of yourself is that you start to believe in your own bullsh*t! This has gone way too far! And if society won't fix it, I will!
But she couldn't. And if you can't fix 'em, join 'em. Which she did.
FilipoSooa wrote:In other words, I wish Bebe would've taken Wendy's place as the main female character of the child characters to be honest.
Which is the only reason this thread exists. :) Sure, Bebe has had an episode or two revolve around her, but she has never been the main girl. That won't change.
Even a background female character like Heidi Turner became more prominent with the whole Season 20 storyline arc saga, yet Wendy would always remain the main girl. I suppose anything can happen in South Park with the latest format of a whole season's worth of storylines. I suppose we could hear more from other background characters like Red or Annie in the near future seasons sort of the same way we're currently seeing of Heidi Turner about her relationship with Eric Cartman.

To be fair, it was sort of fun for The Boys (at the time composed of Cartman, Stan and Kyle) to find a replacement fourth friend to fill the void left behind by Kenny's semi-permanent death, ranging from Butters, Tweek and/or Bebe. Others who were considered for replacing Kenny were Wendy, Clyde, Craig, Token, Jimmy, Timmy, Damien (Satan's kid), Pip, DogPoo Petuski and Towelie. For a short time, Bebe had the most speaking lines than the other episodes that did feature her.

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