*2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Discuss new episodes without ruining them for people in other time zones.

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JVM
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby JVM » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:40 am

Which one of the four main boys that each girl at the bus stop represents?
My personal take... Kyle is often the one engaging Cartman, while Stan would suggest to ignore it or not bother and Kenny would say little to nothing.
Heidi = Cartman = This one doesn't take a rocket scientist.
Wendy = Stan = Neither of them really wanted to be too involved but still tried to keep a moral high ground.
Theresa = Kyle = The 'Trailer Park' thing reeks of Kenny, but she's also the one doing most of the arguing with Heidi
Isla = Kenny = Heidi makes a big deal because she spoke, similar to how Kenny rarely speaks, and Cartman has called him on it.

I'm surprised they picked Theresa and Isla to fill this out instead of Bebe/Red/Annie/Nichole, who are much more frequently used female characters, but it's certainly nice to learn more about these two. :)

[hr]
The main plot of this episode seemed poised for some classic Nathan and Mimsy fun, but after a nice start, it loses some of its steam and ends up feeling like a secondary plot, as the recurring characters here are sidelined in favor of the secondary plot's intervention and the additional scientists. Funnily enough, I almost recognized Jerry Jones when they made their entrance, but assumed it was a reused or similar character model... so I laughed my ass of when it turned out to be Jones. Worked to me as a good satire of the NFL's power and prestige even in their current slump, even if it severely dated a plotline that otherwise had something of a timeless quality going for it.

The second plot was like seeing some of my crappy old fanfiction come to life - I always played Heidi as Cartman's bitchy girlfriend and his female equivalent, although we're talking almost ten years ago now. I have to say I don't think it crossed well with the main plotline as I'd hoped, and I think it's extremely unfortunate that the show had to correlate Heidi becoming less attractive with her becoming ruder, but the little kid in me loved seeing Heidi be the vile bitch I'd long imagined, and finally seeing a 'Bus Stop' sketch with four female characters is something I'd always wanted but began to think might never happen. Seeing Cartman regretting this course of events was icing on the cake!

If Heidi's characterization is the sacrifice to be made for those kinds of scenes, I fully support it, although I kind of wish she'd lose the weight. SP could use a nice fat character, but it doesn't need another fat assh*le.

In conclusion, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, even though with my critical eyeglasses, I could probably spot a lot of flaws... but I'm leaving those off right now.

[hr]

Name Changes
Molly --> Theresa
"Kal" --> "Courtney" --> Isla
Minillah "Mimsy"

I'm not entirely sure where "Courtney" came from for this character. I knew that Kal and Isla probably were not the same character, but since they looked very similar and the latter lacked a name, I tended to use the former. Oddly, the name Isla appeared on the wiki a while ago for her alongside an upload of her image, so the name's been around SPS for a while. I was under the impression the unseen Courtney in TSOT was the 'Hall Girl' who is now usually Allie Nelson.

"Jennifer's purse was cuter than Theresa's" in "The List" finally makes sense :)

Notes/Trivia
- Yes, it's a different look but I'm quite sure that's still Counselor Steve.
- Millie had her southern accent back last week, but here it's gone again.
- "You're the best science student at school." While not a retcon, does ring off with Kyle and Terrance being the top students at the science fair in "An Elephant Makes Love to a Pig"
- Terrance is still alive, he's in the big assembly scene again :)
- Between the Preview and Air, the girls Nathan and Mimsy talk to were changed. Nichole's still there, but Wendy is replaced by Nelly. I think Bebe changed, too?
- "OCTONAUTS" is the first word Timmy's uttered in probably fifteen years besides his own name. He actually had a vocabulary of around 12 words by the seventh season, but later appearances have mostly stuck to his name, even dropping "Livin' a lie."
- The Special Ed building appears separate from the main school building, just like the Shop Class and Home Ec class buildings way way way back in season 3's "Tweek Vs. Craig". For flexibility's sake, the show does reinforce that they only spend some time in special ed classes and still use the same hallways and lockers.
- Nathan is most focused on Nichole while flirting... as we know from season 19, he likes high-class black women...
- Frances seems to be the show's go-to Handicapable Kid outside of their own main four of Timmy, Jimmy, Nathan and Mimsy, having had speaking roles or mentions in each episode focused on the group.
- Mr. Mackey refers to Eric as simply 'Cartman' here, which I think is a first for him, as he usually goes for 'Eric' or 'Eric Cartman'. Might be a second, but definitely atypical.
- Clyde's birthday is next week, which is probably the second time Clyde's done anything in like five years. This contradicts it previously being dated in April, since Steve explicitly says it's November... but of course, Stan's had two tenth birthdays and Cartman's is depicted in winter but dated July, and Butters is a month before Kyle but also in September while Kyle's in May, so there's an area of continuity even this loser doesn't care about.
- I don't think either preview image was included in the final episode, although the Jimmy's Room scene looks like the action might've simply been moved to the Special Ed building. No idea about PC Principal. The phrase "moss piglets" is never referenced either.
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Big-Will » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 am

JVM wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:40 am
Theresa = Kyle = The 'Trailer Park' thing reeks of Kenny, but she's also the one doing most of the arguing with Heidi
Isla = Kenny = Heidi makes a big deal because she spoke, similar to how Kenny rarely speaks, and Cartman has called him on it.
But Cartman never says Kenny has something profound to say. He'd save that for Kyle, like Heidi did for Isla: "Oh, looks like Isla has something to say, you guys. Hold on, I'm sure this is going to be really profound."

The first press image did make it into the episode, but the classroom was totally changed and a few items in the pic were replaced with different items.
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mario88
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby mario88 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:02 pm

i like this new, dark south park. the plot's episode is somehow incomplete though, i guess something didn't work out properly during the making of the episode.

I mean, if the vulcano is the answer, you gotta explain me why or at least create an atmosphere that makes me understand you leave that suspended for next episode.

so the tables have been turned around, it's heidi now the one who is bored as hell having cartman around but at the same time won't let him leave her.

heidi saw the only way of surviving in turning into cartman. If you guys think about that, it's kind of sad.

imho 20 minutes is not enough for the new south park, but i don't see them doubling the length and therefore the costs of the episodes as there probably wouldn't be a correspondent increase in earnings.
Last edited by mario88 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sgt. Sarge
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Sgt. Sarge » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:37 pm

nwt000 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:58 am
Trey and Matt should end their sexist tradition of demonizing and killing off one of the fourth grade girls in every odd-numbered season, it would be nice for the fourth grade girls to get actual respect on the show instead of being characters that hardly ever get any personality or attention unless they’re being built up for the audience to hate them and then celebrate their impending demise.
Can't help but feel that's a bad assumption to make. Through out the past 20 years, the boys have gone though some many humiliating and deforming incidents. They were picked on and built up, fell and risen up to all kinds of situations, what Heidi is going though is no different than what many of the boys went through except this is happening over the course of a season.

I know a lot of fans who have their stomachs in knots, worried that Heidi might get killed off or something tragic will happen. The thing is I feel this is what Matt and Tray want, they want fans to be on the edge, to be uncertain as to how the plot will unfold. I'm hoping that Heidi will make it though ok in the end as it would be tragic after all the things she's been though. Making the protagonists go though tough stuff and beating it most of the time is what good storytelling is about. If we were to not let Heidi deal with these situations and or not be affected by them then that would be boring.
Last edited by Sgt. Sarge on Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
mario88
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby mario88 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:30 pm

i don't think there is a chance of seeing heidi dead.

as far as i remember, no important character has ever been killed in south park, except for chef but we know there was a particular story behind it, the "voice" left.

and at this point, heidi has become a relevant character in the show.

trey does "kill" sometimes, but his modus operandi is different, only minor characters like ms crabtree, saddam or pip get killed.
Last edited by mario88 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MichaelTanzerCanada
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby MichaelTanzerCanada » Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:06 pm

Question: Are you sure that Fat Heidi might be a permanently thing now? Is there any way to make Heiman even better as an Healthy relationship?
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Sgt. Sarge
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Sgt. Sarge » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:36 pm

MichaelTanzerCanada wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:06 pm
Question: Are you sure that Fat Heidi might be a permanently thing now? Is there any way to make Heiman even better as an Healthy relationship?
Nobody knows anymore than you, however we can take a look at past characters to get an idea.

Ms Garrison was a thing for several seasons before reverting back to Mr Garrison, Butters had a brace for half of season 19 and Kenny was permanently dead for season 6. They will keep Heidi fat for either then end of the season or until they get bored, (my prediction).
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Det. Sandy Vagina » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:57 pm

-So Mimsy is just a nickname and his real name is Mimila?
-After the scene in Doubling Down when she had already gained a bit of weight and basically called Kyle a dirty Jew, I literally predicted she'd become fatter and Cartman-er in the next episode.
-Oh my God a bus stop scene... It's been ages since we've had one of those. Unfortunately it was just a parody of it with the girls instead of the boys, but still.
-Weird that they chose two random girls no one even knows about instead of maybe Bebe and Red.
-Seeing Mackey and PC Principal standing next to each other looks weird as hell. A season 1 design next to a modern South Park design. Geez.

I'm really disappointed in the lack of Nathan. Jimmy, Timmy, Nathan and Mimsy were in the press release and the promo, yet the episode mostly focuses on Heidi. I appreciate what I got though because I really didn't expect Nathan to have another major role in the show. And I wonder where they will go from now, now that they've made Heidi female Cartman.
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Det. Sandy Vagina » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:34 pm

Another note: Why does Jimmy qualify to be in special ed? It's supposed to be for mentally handicapped kids, right? Pretty sure his disability is all physical except for the stutter.
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Big-Will » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:50 pm

On the show, people with a deformity of some sort get the special ed treatment, but you only see Timmy and Jimmy in class with the regular students. This is accidentally confirmed by the use of "special needs" instead of "special ed" throughout the episode. Stephen Hawking would be the case of a genius (and thus, not one to go to special ed classes) with special needs.
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Hannafechik98
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Hannafechik98 » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 pm

I wonder how Cartman's going to fix this. Heidi has now become a female version of him. Maybe in order to get Heidi back to normal, Cartman is going to have to accept it's his own fault, and try to correct his errors.
triplemultiplex
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby triplemultiplex » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:58 pm

"We've lost her, Jim." :(
Heidi has turned to to the dark side.
(Yes that was a Star Trek reference and a Star Wars reference back-to-back. ;) )

My grief was short lived as it turns out, because it's really funny when other characters start acting like Cartman. Even more enjoyable that Fatass finds what amounts to a female version of himself to be a total drag. No one executes a better role reversal than South Park and here it was again. I'm not in a rush to undo this new change to Heidi. It's making Lardo miserable and that brings me joy. I've grumbled a lot about this relationship since it started, but now I think I am on board. A swift kick in the ass for Cartman is fun, but Heidi is slowly beginning to torture him the way he has abused so many of his classmates over the years and that kind of long-term misery is what he's had coming for a long, long time. It's justice, karma, whatever you want to call it.

Nathan and Mimsy didn't get on my nerves too much, but the NFL story line was underwhelming. Tardigrades as football fans was good for one chuckle but it didn't carry the plot for me. The caricature of Jerry Jones and his asshole face gave me more satisfaction than that part of the story.

They avoided the cheap tardigrade pun I pitched earlier this week. Their loss.

<edit> I almost forgot to include my hearty laugh at Heidi's plumber's crack when she was standing at the podium. :lol:
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby Hannafechik98 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:32 am

But maybe this will force Cartman to take responsibility for his actions. He finally is realizing this time what his evil nature through the years has finally rubbed off on another student.

In an article I have just read on the episode, this question popped up: Is Cartman going to have to dig deeper, and become more twisted than usual to stop Heidi and get her back to normal? What could he do that’s just as twisted as his most infamous stunt. (You know which one. Season 5 episode 4)
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby JamesPolo » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:28 am

Hannafechik98 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:32 am
But maybe this will force Cartman to take responsibility for his actions. He finally is realizing this time what his evil nature through the years has finally rubbed off on another student.

In an article I have just read on the episode, this question popped up: Is Cartman going to have to dig deeper, and become more twisted than usual to stop Heidi and get her back to normal? What could he do that’s just as twisted as his most infamous stunt. (You know which one. Season 5 episode 4)
I'll take a quick jab at this. I would think killing Heidi's family members as the starter. There is also how Heidi likes to follow through, in everyway you say. So would making her have bad grades be the evil? Or she does now seem to have biases so would making her a handicapped person work? Or what if Cartman steals all her eggs and leaves her infertile and gives all the eggs to an agency that impregnates them with criminals and coloreds and Jews sperm? Just some quick thoughts of evil.
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Re: *2108: Moss Piglets* Post-Air Discussion

Postby MichaelTanzerCanada » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:39 am

Hannafechik98 wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:51 pm
I wonder how Cartman's going to fix this. Heidi has now become a female version of him. Maybe in order to get Heidi back to normal, Cartman is going to have to accept it's his own fault, and try to correct his errors.
True enough
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