S23E03: "Shots!!!" postshow discussion

[JamesPolo]

So, the 300 was 300,000 profit… and it being the 300th episode. I didn’t mind the nods to this. When Randy was on the parade boat and was throwing beads, it would have been funny to see a girl flash her boobies. Started to get a perk out of me.

Was fun at first with Cartman being a pig and getting naked and greased up but it didn’t feel like that funny to be a main plot but whatever. Doesn’t Cartman have a pet pig still? Probably could have used the pet pig in the episode.

Big Mesquite Murph was okay. Made me hungry.

It had the artistic joke. Was funny at the end with Cartman’s mother painting in the office.

Reggae Randy was cool in the TV ad commercial.

The “My Body My Choice” t-shirt was nice but could have used origins possibly explained.

It seemed like things were starting to heat up between Miss Cartman and Randy, but it became nothing. Randy was just upset that he had lost Towelli. It was nice to see Randy agree to stop selling out and being a towel and with him saying f*ck CHINA. Still I know people will hate that as it points to even more episodes of Tegrity Farms. I guess it will be funny to see Randy betray Towelli again. Randy is at bad terms with everyone now. His family is close to leaving him.

The All County Immunization thing was okay. Had enough humor and was childlike enough that I would think people enjoyed it.

Randy and Towelli at lover’s lane were weird. I wonder if Trey and Matt are thinking of having the Marsh family split and leave Randy? Will we be seeing Randy single and then dating Cartman’s mom or other women from town?

Episode was bland and drawn out.

It wasn’t the worst episode, but I don’t thing it was that good. I’ll give her a 7 / 10

[mario88]

meh. Maybe it's because I had high expectations, but I found this episode underwhelming. On a scale of 1 to 10, for me it's 5, at best. I'll write more later.

[Big-Will]

What did we learn this week?

[Stanluv25]

Meh. Not like I was expecting to me wowed, but I also try to be semi-optimistic if an episode sounds whatever. I do like the nods Matt and Trey do for the fanbase. Happy big 300 yet no one really seems to care. Randy wondering why some people might not be stoked on the Tegridy Farms idea anymore. He's only trying to provide for his family! lol I was wondering how they were going to throw the '300' celebration into this episode. I'm guessing $300,000 in sales of weed is a lot? I dunno. But at the end of Band in China a truck loads a ton of money on the farm so I would think the Marshes were rich at this point. Hm.

The Cartman story was meh. Kind of predictable. It was pretty humorous hearing pig squeals coming from him but that's about it. I don't know, I honestly felt Cartman had no problem with needles. He injected himself with apple juice before no problem. He ordered all the boys to blood draws to see who had lice. Again, I would have chosen Stan simply since he's the one with the fear of hospitals. But that was season 2 and I doubt M&T go back to those earlier seasons anyway... shame. It's more interesting to me for the 'normal' kid to have that fear, not the fatass. Since honestly, I have written many stories mentioning Stan having a fear of needles so in my head its kind of canon. This episode leaves me confused...

Kids can't go to public school anyway without being vaccinated, right? So how did Cartman get in?

I did like Liane finally stepping up and trying to take a role in being a good mother. Kinda. Seeing her punch people out of her way was cool. Her talk with Randy was good. Randy sharing a joint with someone- is that going to be a recurring joke this season? lol And of course Randy thinking on his partner he hasn't be fair to lately is Towelie- not Sharon! LOL But in a way I'm glad. It appears Sharon finally walked out with the kids. I wonder where they went? But I'm very glad that it finally happened. More opportunities to change things up- Sharon, Stan, Shelley living in an apartment again until Randy comes to his senses and sells his farm. I know I don't want things to 'reset' next week, as if the three didn't walk out on Randy. They better still be pissed off at him!

Mixed feelings for this one. Not terrible, I did laugh more than in 'Mexican Joker'. 6/10

[triplemultiplex]

When Lianne showed up to talk to Randy, my first instinct was, "Oh they're gonna do it." Randy just pissed of the whole family and Lianne has Fatass being his usually overwhelming self; they're gonna bond over their family troubles with cannabis lowering their inhibitions and shag in the barn. Instead, the joke was about Lianne confiding in Randy only to have Randy be the one dumping out his purse. My expectations were not exactly met. I was seeing the start of an arc that would span the rest of the season, instead it was nope, never mind!

The artistic joke was a good jab at anti-vaxers and then to pay it off at the very end made for a strong finish. Though we shouldn't be surprised that Lianne is artistic. Remember her rediscovering her love of painting when the Dog Whisperer got Fatass under control for a little while?
"I almost forgot how artistic I was."

Watch the parade scene again; there's a lot more going on there than just Randy being annoying. As his float is leaving the screen, Randy turns away from camera, pulls down his pants and starts literally swinging his dick around.
Then to top that, there's a crew following the float cleaning up the horse shit, but there are no horses! Randy's horseless parade float is so over the top and his behavior so ridiculous that it's somehow generating horse shit! That is a gem of a sight gag and my biggest laugh of the episode.
Making deals with China is horseshit.
Celebrating meaningless milestones is horseshit.
Making yourself the center of attention is horseshit.

I love it!

My other favorite gag is both Fatass and Lianne reading notes off their hands while making their case before the others. That's great because anti-vax people don't actually learn about vaccine safety, they just parrot back some shit they read on the internet.

I kind of wanted them to treat the issue a little harsher, but the soft touch with Lianne was probably the right move. You don't make an easy strawman, you give the character a sympathetic, charitable position and argue against that.

[Blabbermouthed]

Whahahaha, "artistic" 10 out of 10 this one! "I'm afraid there are side effects" BOOM! Did you guys&girls see that bit by Joe Rogan and Annie Jacobsen, on how one of Hitlers friends was imported into the states and given a life for his knowledge on mass vaccination programs? It's a form of oppression if you ask me, and when a corporation gets their product on the list of recommended/mandatory it makes a 100 billion bucks, don't you think there's always a criminal mind who thinks 'if I don't do f*ck them, somebody else will'. It's the f*cking mafia, and it's ruthless and wrong so accurately pictured in this episode. I should show my mom that bit where Cartman sends his mom out of the house to make her apologize for vaccinating me. No, I should make an instruction video for kids what they should do when somebody wants to inject a needle full of toxins directly into their bloodstream: run and scream like a piggy whahaha!

South Park so funny

But seriously; vaccination is the worst idea ever. Pisses me off so goddamn much. They never worked did you know that? They didn't even increase the decline of the disease when they were introduced and still decades later everyone is buying into it, while everyone is getting sicker and sicker. At the rate we are going now 1 in 3 kids will be turned artistic by 2030. That's not enough people left to keep things going so somewhere this decade there's going to have to be a revolt - like the people in Brazil did in back in 1904.. That's right, this sh*t is like a memberberry - think about that

[Big-Will]

Randy turns away from camera, pulls down his pants and starts literally swinging his dick around.
Then to top that, there's a crew following the float cleaning up the horse shit, but there are no horses!

I didn't see no dick swinging around, but I did see the pants go down. And considering it was indeed shit the janitor was scooping up, it was not horse sh*t, but human sh*t. Randy's sh*t. He done did a couple squats and dropped a few bombs down the hole in the middle of the float for the janitor to scoop up. Damn, Randy!

[mario88]

On one hand, I admire south Park's authors for their coherence. Freedom of speech doesn't mean much if in practice doesn't work.

They have probably lost a decent amount of money with this huge f*ck off to Chinese government, but they can look at themselves in the mirror and be proud of themselves. I'm not sure NBA and Disney can do the same.

But arstically, so to speak, i found the episode underwhelming. I just didn't enjoy it. The idea of making fun of anti vaxxers was appealing, but the execution... Wasn't so much. Or at least not for me.

But again, the expectations being so high (because it was the 300th episode) didn't help me appreciate what I was watching, I set the bar too high.

South Park , anyways, is still relevant after more than 20 years. I cannot think of any other series that has achieved that. Some series have lasted for even longer periods, but frankly didn't quite have anything Interesting left to say after some years.

[mario88]

But seriously; vaccination is the worst idea ever. Pisses me off so goddamn much. They never worked did you know that? They didn't even increase the decline of the disease when they were introduced and still decades later everyone is buying into it, while everyone is getting sicker and sicker. At the rate we are going now 1 in 3 kids will be turned artistic by 2030. That's not enough people left to keep things going so somewhere this decade there's going to have to be a revolt - like the people in Brazil did in back in 1904.. That's right, this sh*t is like a memberberry - think about that

I'll be as direct as possible: if you are being sarcastic, and I'm just missing your sarcasm, then ok. But if you're being serious, which I think is the case, you are a retard.

Vaccines do work and have saved over the decades millions of lives.

[Blabbermouthed]

But seriously; vaccination is the worst idea ever. Pisses me off so goddamn much. They never worked did you know that? They didn't even increase the decline of the disease when they were introduced and still decades later everyone is buying into it, while everyone is getting sicker and sicker. At the rate we are going now 1 in 3 kids will be turned artistic by 2030. That's not enough people left to keep things going so somewhere this decade there's going to have to be a revolt - like the people in Brazil did in back in 1904.. That's right, this sh*t is like a memberberry - think about that

I'll be as direct as possible: if you are being sarcastic, and I'm just missing your sarcasm, then ok. But if you're being serious, which I think is the case, you are a retard.

Vaccines do work and have saved over the decades millions of lives.

You're the retard for believing that. Didn't South Park learn you how to see through the charade? They shot you up good I guess

[Big-Will]

South Park's take on vaccines is like its takes on other issues: let the person decide what's best for himself or herself, or for his or her kids. Cartman's mom has determined to do things her way, whether or not Cartman gets his shots is up to her. The other thing is the belief that vaccines cause autism. Matt substitutes art for autism and shows that vaccines don't make you any more artistic - autistic - than you would be without them. So, it's up to you if you want to vaccinate your kids. Just know that autism has nothing to do with vaccines.

[mario88]

But seriously; vaccination is the worst idea ever. Pisses me off so goddamn much. They never worked did you know that? They didn't even increase the decline of the disease when they were introduced and still decades later everyone is buying into it, while everyone is getting sicker and sicker. At the rate we are going now 1 in 3 kids will be turned artistic by 2030. That's not enough people left to keep things going so somewhere this decade there's going to have to be a revolt - like the people in Brazil did in back in 1904.. That's right, this sh*t is like a memberberry - think about that

I'll be as direct as possible: if you are being sarcastic, and I'm just missing your sarcasm, then ok. But if you're being serious, which I think is the case, you are a retard.

Vaccines do work and have saved over the decades millions of lives.

You're the retard for believing that. Didn't South Park learn you how to see through the charade? They shot you up good I guess

It's not a matter of "belief". It's science. Some things, like what happens after we die, are a matter of belief, some other things, like what is the best form of government, are a matter of opinion and debate. Then there is science and that's the territory of facts, at least for acquired data like vaccines.

Those who constantly believe in conspiracies are either retards or individuals with very low self-esteem, who need to believe in conspiracies because that makes them feel like somebody is interested in harming them.

Whether you're just a retard, or also an individual with very low self-esteem, well, this can be a matter of opinion. Not the effects of vaccines.

America is a country of extremes: it gives the world a lot of great scientists, but it also provides the worst functional illiteracy of the western world.

[mario88]

South Park's take on vaccines is like its takes on other issues: let the person decide what's best for himself or herself, or for his or her kids. Cartman's mom has determined to do things her way, whether or not Cartman gets his shots is up to her. The other thing is the belief that vaccines cause autism. Matt substitutes art for autism and shows that vaccines don't make you any more artistic - autistic - than you would be without them. So, it's up to you if you want to vaccinate your kids. Just know that autism has nothing to do with vaccines.

To be honest, I'm not sure that's the conclusion we can draw from the latest episode. I don't see them making a point in defending cartman's.mom point of view. They show it, but I don't see them defending it.

Anyways, regardless of whether this is or not south park's view, I don't agree with that: first off, kids are not the parents' property. Parents have to do what's best for their children and while in matters regarding parenthood there's a huge territory of opinions and different views, there is literally nothing that can be considered positive, or even not negative, in not vaccinating a child; unless of course we are dealing with the very few cases of actual allergies.

Which takes me to yet another problem: non vaccinated kids can harm those who can't get a vaccine, either because they are too young (toddlers) or because they are allergic.

Luckily, so far in my country this is almost a non issue (but we do have our small share of retards).

Again, what catches my interest the most in general is the spreading of this anti-scientific fad on a global scale (but let's hope it's just a fad, I'm not even sure of that).

[JamesPolo]

Well I believe most science when it comes to retardation from vaccinations in that it is fake. As far as I know being really born autistic is like from stomach bacteria or something and extra genes or some bull, I really forget the reason. Still I would think there is a slight chance people could be born with issues because of vaccination yet I would blame most issues with someone in the Western World to be from consuming too much Leftist, Colored, Fag, Jew media. I just think that all the make believe and fantasy and fiction is what is poisoning peoples minds and bodies more than anything. Nothing is worse than a low class raced idiot to push onto others some bull from a stupid TV show they just saw because they lack self control.

[JVM]

This might be one of the weirdest topics I've ever seen on this forum. We're hardly talking the episode.

It's clear from the first scene with Cartman that this episode is really more about his fear of needles than anything other than that, and the joke with him running around like a little piggy is a fairly timeless, silly thing. To me, it read more that Cartman appropriated the location of the anti-vaccination movement (and sold his mom into it) only as an excuse to justify his fear of needles and desire to avoid vaccines, just as how he is wearing a shirt with an abortion slogan to advance his agenda without really understanding it. I didn't view it as really commenting directly on vaccines, and if it is a commentary, I would imagine the implication is more that people who are against vaccines are probably afraid of needles more than autism.

Me and my family were once anti-vaccination, and autism runs in our family. I think back these days to the deeper issues running behind the scientific paper that initiated the controversy. Wakefield proposed that a specific vaccine caused an infection that lead to gastrointestinal symptoms and problems, which he linked to autism, proposing this as a bowel disorder called "autistic enterocolitis". The colon inflammation symptoms were real and did exist, but these symptoms have never been widely seen as distinctive to autism, and many non-autistic people still experience them. Those details are lost to history on both sides of the debate in favor of the emotional side of the debate.

Back to the episode - what was really interesting to me here is that having Randy and Sharon sequestered off to the farm forced Trey and Matt to be a little more creative with the other parents' story, with the Broflovski and Stotch families getting a little more voice. This feels like the first time in years that Sheila was anything like her older, self-righteous self, even if it was only for a couple of lines. There's some really interesting exploration of the other parents' relationship with Liane, where they try to help her and be respectful of her choices but clearly grow frustrated and other her, which emotionally affects her. It's been a little while since South Park has assigned a character this level of depth when it wasn't forced on to it by a larger plot.

A lot of the commentary for the episode on both sides is focused on how to interpret Liane's actions in the broader social commentary of vaccination issue, and whether the sudden references to the anti-vaccination campaign are meant to reflect on more on her parenting or on Cartman's behavior. Given she is making efforts to have him vaccinated by doctors, and seems awkward and scripted reading her lines about the issue, I read it as continuing the later seasons' efforts to humanize her by portraying her as almost a victim of emotional abuse at her son's hands, a power imbalance that cannot exist in reality but absolutely can in fiction. Through that lens, Liane's actions make more sense, and seem more sympathetic, as she seeks answers, feeling shamed for a situation she cannot control.

I also find the ending funnier, if less explicable, given she was previously implied to have an artistic interest back in season 6's "The Biggest Douche in the Universe" (wanting to see Hairspray, I think it was) and season 10's "Tsst!" (her line is "I'd forgotten how artistic I was") and I'd swear there's at least another bit.

Now, as for Randy's plot, the right idea was there but it didn't quite fit together; it almost felt obligatory. It's nice to see Sharon and Shelly expressing their concerns about the ranch again, given their obvious displeasure; this is a plot thread I really hope is heading somewhere before this season comes to an end. Stan is also revisited a bit there. The three hundred thousand dollars bit I'll cover in the following parapgrah. His heart to heart with Liane is an excellent use of both characters, playing off their established relationship through their friends while still feeling new and different as they've not spoken directly much. It's an effort to humanize both characters, connecting their common motivation, and it brings them both to humanity more than a lot of adult-focused episodes do. Randy's talk with Towelie is mildly entertaining, working as a bit of a joke after the tease, but does undermine how it fits into the episode's arc, and feels a little too light after Randy's been killing people.

The final point here though is... three hundred thousand dollars is sort of our meta about the show's three hundredth episode, and it' pretty unsatisfying. Trey and Matt were clear in advance of the season we wouldn't get anything too crazy or fun for the show's 300th episode, and I'm still a little sour on that, but it still feels so vague and unrefined. While the scene of Randy wondering why nobody's stoked on Tegridy Farms anymore is good, I kind of would trade one of those scenes for like, a little crowd shot. Just one good fan service-y moment of bigger proportion. It's so tempting to be harder on this episode just for being a milestone, and I'm trying not to, but... it felt like it just needed some special scene to fit it there.

It's hard for me to come up with an overall rating or anything like others do. It felt like, wildly OK to me without being particularly funny, insightful or offensive.

Also, you can spot the Valmer, Rodriguez, Stoley, and Turner families at the PTA meeting, and I think the Testaburgers, Stevens and Knitts parents as well. Jimbo's there inexplicably, as Big-Will pointed out, but I'm glad to see him acknowledged. I wonder if we'll ever see the Whites, Skeeter or Dr. Mephesto join these meetings? If there's any animators still reading the boards, I'd love to see the latter show up one day.

As an additional goof, Dr. Bender switches to Dr. Gauche's voice from the older seasons in the last scene. Interesting that he's stuck around since season 21ish after a conga line of one-time doctors. Gauche has only had one line in the last third of the show, having been mostly absent since s14's "Medicinal Fried Chicken" literally about a hundred eps ago. (The exception being s19's "You're Not Yelping".)