*1004: Cartoon Wars Part II*

Discuss new episodes without ruining them for people in other time zones.

Moderator: Big-Will

makki
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 11:59 am

Postby makki » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:31 pm

Muhammad was cencored by CC.
If M&T didn't wanna show him, then they would have shown the viewers faces, instead of the black screen.

And as far as Muhammad being offensive, then it would not have been in this episode aslong as he had no voice. As a Muslim I would not have taken offense to a mute Muhammad handing Peter a salmon helmet. It was in no way offensive, and as Kyle said, "Muslims arn't allowed to draw Muhammad".
pitchblank
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:45 pm

Postby pitchblank » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:34 pm

makki wrote:Muhammad was cencored by CC.
If M&T didn't wanna show him, then they would have shown the viewers faces, instead of the black screen.


Yeah, I mean if the censorship was 'fake' and done by Matt & Trey, then the whole episode was pointless and they're just kicking in open doors and shooting themselves in the foot. Why would M&T fabricate a problem and then pretend to fight it, aren't there enough *real* problems to target?
xboxgrl
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:55 pm

Postby xboxgrl » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:48 pm

Ok..it's morning.

WTF happened. Was it CC or Matt and Trey?

I'm getting too old for this sh*t.

I need somebody to be pissed at. :x

No matter what - the girlfight between Cartman and Kyle was one of the most hilarious of the entire run of the show.
I'm living proof that mile-high altitude warps fragile little minds.
aeb1barfo
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:03 pm

Re: I'm going to bed

Postby aeb1barfo » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:00 pm

D-FENS wrote:I just wanted to say i was surprised at the people on this board. Not a flamer or troll among you (yet). Best message board experience i've had since the BBS dial up days. Thanks.


Oh, REALLY?...Image

How many of you get PAID to TROLL?

How many of you get to TROLL, not only the INTERNET, but the WORLD?!!

How many of you have your OWN set of SMILIES?? Image Image Image Image

M&T are the ULTIMATE TROLLS!!

And before we start a FLAME WAR........READ THIS....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

I have compared M&T to some OTHER famous SATIRIST in the past ( the 1003 thread ) I still do. I even commented on the various levels of their humor and messages( 1003 thread again ).

I just added ANOTHER level to their humor.......
" f*ck, even in the future nothing works " - Dark Helmet, " Spaceballs "
Paladoris
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:22 am

Postby Paladoris » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:19 pm

makki wrote:Muhammad was cencored by CC.
If M&T didn't wanna show him, then they would have shown the viewers faces, instead of the black screen.

And as far as Muhammad being offensive, then it would not have been in this episode aslong as he had no voice. As a Muslim I would not have taken offense to a mute Muhammad handing Peter a salmon helmet. It was in no way offensive, and as Kyle said, "Muslims arn't allowed to draw Muhammad".

He was given a voice though, wasn't he? I can't remember what he said, but in the beginning with the Terrence and Philip episode he had a short little line. As for CC censoring, I'm still not sure. M&T would certainly have no objection to showing Muhammed, but it seems to me that even the short amount of time it would take to show him handing Peter the helmet without a real joke would just be way empty and out of character for South Park. It's an intuitive thing, I just imagine what the scene would actually look like and it just doesn't sit right with how M&T tell their jokes. The black screen and the explanation of what happened has the same effect that I imagine the actual scene would. But you're right in that if they didn't want to (or couldn't) show Muhammed, they'd show the viewer's faces. There's a big meaning in that black screen explanation that I think a lot of us are missing...I just can't put my finger on what M&T would be trying to say with it. Just to put it in as a joke on the viewers seems kinda dumb to me. Perhaps it's that even after Comedy Central let them go to town on the issue and make really incredible points, cowardice wins. Maybe it's a commentary on Americans talking a good lot on the importance of free speech but still caving when it really comes down to it. That's what works best for me.

So I'm curious, as long as I've got the opportunity to talk honestly with a Muslim, as I don't know any that well. My roomate is Arab and visits Jordan often, but he thinks Muslims are crazy. The reason I kept hearing that the Danish cartoons were so offensive was because it's against Islamic law to show an image of Muhammed to prevent idolatry. But as Kyle points out, that's only true for Muslims. So was that just a religious excuse to make us feel bad while the rioters were really just pissed at them poking fun at the prophet, or are Muslims really afraid of people worshipping a dude with a bomb for a turban? Even the rule seems a little off to me. Muhammed made it abundantly clear that he was simply a messenger, yes? Wouldn't creating an image of Allah be the forbidden thing?
themissingpatient
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:20 pm

Postby themissingpatient » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:40 pm

I was so pissed that they censored Muhammad I wanted to puke. I really don't think, like others have said here before, that Matt & Trey censored the image themselves, it was obviously Comedy Central.

I think Matt and Trey put Comedy Central up to the test, and they have failed. I know they pulled "Trapped in a Closet" but I heard they also pulled "Bloody Mary" What the f*ck is going on? I am a Christian and my father is an alcoholic and I thought "Bloody Mary" was funny.

In this episode alone they were allowed to poke fun at Canadians & Americians yet again. They could sh*t on the Americian flag, have Jesus sh*t on Bush, have Bart Simpson swear, rip Family Guy a new assh*le, and yet Muhammed was censored??

Comedy Central can f*ck right off!
But if Matt and Trey did it on purpose then well f*ck me, they got me, and this would only be the first time they have let me down, but I really don't think they did it on purpose.
J. Tyler
pitchblank
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:45 pm

Postby pitchblank » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:42 pm

Paladoris wrote:As for CC censoring, I'm still not sure. M&T would certainly have no objection to showing Muhammed, but it seems to me that even the short amount of time it would take to show him handing Peter the helmet without a real joke would just be way empty and out of character for South Park.


That all depends on how Muhammed looked... let's say Matt and Trey used the "bomb turban" head from the Danish cartoons to depict Muhammed, I assure you that a single frame of that would have CC crap their pants.
Lovefist233
Posts: 59
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:43 pm

Postby Lovefist233 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:50 pm

^this^
religion is for idiots
iceiwynd
Posts: 2905
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:24 am

Postby iceiwynd » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:54 pm

Holy crap, do none of you people SLEEP? (Ignoring the fact that if I had been allowed to stay up I would've.) I'm not reading through all of that, I'll just pop in to make a few quick points (and if they were said already, well, then I'm emphasizing them).

Cartoon Wars was not solely about Tom Cruise, okay? It was still about the Mohammed issue. Where else would the terrorist thing come from, and very good points made against it? Come on, it's still going to be an issue that they're going to care about. It's censorship, what the entire episode, both parts, dealt with. That was the number one thing on the list. Look at the show itself. Isn't it the type to combat censorship? I feel that a two-parter is completely acceptable for this issue. If anything, it's the one that South Park should be tackling the most.

Also, people are talking about these episodes beings mostly for the "insider, hardcore fans" of South Park. Not completely true. I've got quite a few friends (three I can name off of the top of my head, who aren't very insidery, although one is becoming more like that) who I have heard from who LOVED the episode. I'm gonna use internet aliases here for a moment here, just so I'm not randomly posting out other people's screennames.

In a comment on my LiveJournal in my big fangirling post:

"It was awesome XDDD Although I looked at the BBS, and everyone and his Mother is bitching about free speech XD "CC IS HELL DEATH MORONS!! SHOW THE MUHAMMED"

The way I see it, the black censor screen was intended... it was the way the rest of the "family guy" clip played out, and the way Peter was stood and what he said... but there's seriously like... 7 billion threads.

So I'm delaying my sign-up XDDD"

Haha, yeah, and I have to agree with her, if this debate is still going on. Seriously.

And on AIM (her SN has been changed to her internet alias just so she doesn't get random IMs from any of you folk):

Meg: I think Cartoon Wars pwnz my soul.
Lior Namir: Yup.
Meg: ...I almost threw a shioe at the tv, originally.
Lior Namir: For Terrance and Phillip? XDD
Meg: YES
Meg: Tv: TERRANCE AND PHILLIP!
Me" ASKJF:SDJFSD SHOE NOW!
Lior Namir: XDD
Meg: And manatees! :D
Lior Namir: Yes. XD
Lior Namir: Apparently Matt and Trey = manatees, now.
Meg: XD YES.

Meg: Oh, and I've had fights like Kyle and Cartman's.
Lior Namir: Haha
Lior Namir: That was great. XDD
Meg: *nod* Great episode all around.
Lior Namir: Hell yes.

So no - it's not just an insiders you have to know what's going on episode. Even if you don't know about the whole Tom Cruise thing, it's still about censorship in general. You'd have to be retarded not to see that.

And yes, South Park made Comedy Central what it is and got it to where it is today, but don't forget, Comedy Central made South Park what it is, too. Other stations rejected them, remember? Without Comedy Central the show wouldn't have been made. It was a mutualistic relationship. And yes, now they've both grown up from their simple, homely ways, with South Park being more preachy now and less construction paper-y and more Cartman-y and less random or whatever the hell else older fans are talking about these days, and so did Comedy Central, to the point where it's a full-blown network that can be taken seriously. Just saying. Don't keep harping down on CC, they aren't completely to blame at all.
pitchblank
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:45 pm

Postby pitchblank » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:02 pm

iceiwynd wrote:Holy crap, do none of you people SLEEP?


Not all of us live in North America... myself I'm 9 hours ahead of PST. Throw in a few Europeans, Australians plus some night owls and early birds and you've got 24-7 activity.
BlythyVXR
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:22 pm

Postby BlythyVXR » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:03 pm

isn't overanalysis fun?

So, points not analysed in full yet:

-muhammad appearing in the credits
-the fact that nothing actually appears at the door other tahn a helmet... with a salmon on
-matt and trey's future, could they be walking the streets as we type... should they storm off in protest (I think that one's been covered actually)
-How it's a comedy show and when something takes the piss out of pretty much everything that appeared, that nothing really should be taken seriously at all, and any underlying message is probably pretty much "don't take everything so goddamn seriously" which is contrary to what about 99% of the rest of the posts in this thread are doing.
iceiwynd
Posts: 2905
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:24 am

Postby iceiwynd » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:09 pm

[quote="pitchblank":202e7][quote="iceiwynd":202e7]Holy crap, do none of you people SLEEP? [/quote:202e7]

Not all of us live in North America... myself I'm 9 hours ahead of PST. Throw in a few Europeans, Australians plus some night owls and early birds and you've got 24-7 activity.[/quote:202e7]

Yes, but I also looked at locations when that was said, and saw at least one perosn in Colorado.

Don't mind me, I'm just being a bit of a self-aware ass. :P I do that a lot. But the night owls/early birds do add into the sleep factor.
Paladoris
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:22 am

Postby Paladoris » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:15 pm

pitchblank wrote:
Paladoris wrote:As for CC censoring, I'm still not sure. M&T would certainly have no objection to showing Muhammed, but it seems to me that even the short amount of time it would take to show him handing Peter the helmet without a real joke would just be way empty and out of character for South Park.


That all depends on how Muhammed looked... let's say Matt and Trey used the "bomb turban" head from the Danish cartoons to depict Muhammed, I assure you that a single frame of that would have CC crap their pants.[/quote
Nah, man. Remember everyone's reaction after the clip played? Bush was like "That wasn't bad at all, he was just standing there." That was the whole point of it, that it wasn't about provoking Muslims, it was about free speech and people getting afraid and pissed off over something that really isn't that big of a deal.

And I think we can put to rest the thought that Comedy Central intervened and censored the show themselves. If Comedy Central was indeed solely responsible for the censorship, all they would have done would be to tell M&T to censor it themselves. The fact that the blackout was so diplomatic makes it seem like CC put it in, but this is not like Howard Stern Vs. Pig Vomit. Comedy Central is not oppressing South Park's right to free speech, it's simply not up to them. This censorship was obviously intended from the beginning, as evidenced by "Or will Comedy Central puss out?" I knew they were gonna try and put Muhammed in part 2 right then, but it doesn't seem like a challenge by M&T to CC to me. If you've been watching CC in the last week, you couldn't go 5 minutes without seeing an advertisement for Part 2. I don't think they'd hype it up quite so much if they knew they were going to come out looking like assh*les. That blackout means something, and I think it all goes back to Mr. Stotch's speech in part 1 about standing up for free speech. The blackout is kinda like burying your heads in sand. It's real easy to talk about believing in free speech, but when it comes to defending it most people are cowards; tv execs, politicians, regular-ass people, whoever. We haven't as civilians really have to have actually defended what we're supposed to believe in, so when the time comes where it's necessary to do so, we don't know what to do so we puss out. That's what I think the blackout meant. Granted, it took me awhile to arrive at that conclusion, and usually SP doesn't bury its message so much so I could be wrong, but looking back on both episodes it seems to me the best explanation.

And no, I don't sleep... :tweek:
cjp103
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:58 pm

Postby cjp103 » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:27 pm

Mohammed has been shown in episodes in the past, super best friends. I bet 99% of people who watched that didn't think twice about mohammed being in it. It's only now that the whole Denmark thing happened that anyone is even paying attention to that sort of thing. Why should Comedy Central give the Muslim religion any special treatment, I understand that it is part of their religion not to let anyone portray their prophet. But South Park has ripped on all other religions, why is this any different?
BlythyVXR
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:22 pm

Postby BlythyVXR » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:31 pm

So, anyone else noticed that the episode looked pretty damn good compared to regular episodes. loads of background details and stuff.

but nobody's interested in that.

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