RELIGION - what? LET'S UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES!

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superiorsavior
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RELIGION - what? LET'S UNITE AGAINST SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES!

Postby superiorsavior » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:28 am

To continue any religious debates in since the last thread was sent to spammer hell.
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kfgg
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby kfgg » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:02 am

I believe in God. I pray to God. I believe in Jesus.

I do not however believe in religion and am don't belong to any church anymore.

I'm not going to argue with anybody this will be my only post. I believe prayer changes things and can do a lot.

Why? The obvious I pray and some how God works it out. The bible says to wait patiently, it may take awhile and I have found that to be true. The bible also says something I need to start living by more then I do "Instead of worrying about anything, pray about everything."

I am probably a minority in this but I am gay and I believe God made me that way and everybody else who is and loves them the way they are.

Just one night I decided to say that prayer and accept Jesus into my life.

At the same time, I have become a better person, I've come to understand myself more, I believe God understands me and that God is love.


Again, you can technicly call me a "Christian" but I'm not part of any church or religious body. I believe "religion" gets in the way of the truth.

I wish I could reach my aithest sisters and my mom who believes but is kind of down on it.

A lot of people are non believers because of science, disbelief about whats going on in the world or their own lives, or religion and what these religions say you can or can't do or who you can be or who you can't be.

If people would look past all of that (especially religion) and get to know God think it would be a much better world.

Thats all I have to say.
Stan and Kyle :)
Kelly MacCornmac
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:27 am

RideTheLightning wrote:Alright, my other attempts to sum up what I believe in FAILED on the religion thread so I'll go for it again.


I respect Atheists as the intelligent people they are. As people who make up for some people who have a religion's ignorance to how things were really created. They do no harm, and even when I see a Christian (which I am myself) trying to convert one it makes me sick.
Not all Atheists are smart you know. And there are a wide variety of Atheists out there.

I hate it when Christians try to convert me.


I respect SOME devout Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc.
So you respect all Atheists but only respect some religious figures?

But as for those who just walk around denying fact saying, "JESUS IS LORD OR YOU DIE, YOU DIE AND YOU GO TO HELL", they are the ones who are wrong.
Woo! *hi-fives*
(Or maybe they are right and we do go to hell... but I would much rather go to hell than go to heaven with those bastards. )

I, myself believe there is no physical being God who watches over us, but more of a mental one that can help you. If he is real or not doesn't matter, because the belief he was real has always helped me and still does in a way.
How has it helped you?



Bottom line, everyone is right. There is no harm in Atheism, and there is no harm in religion as long as there are Atheists to make up for some people's ignorance.
Whoa there buddy, you are overexaggerating Atheists a bit. We are not all smart and some are the ones that will not look in the Philosophigal point of view and only look at science. But they are not always right for science can be wrong sometimes and even though it can be reliable, there is no proof that god does or does not exist. And I don't see why you are bashing religion so much. For some people, that's how they can get through their day. Please don't sterotype us, there are smart people in both regions.


Now.... rant time!

Once was when I was at school, where a kid tried to explain why god existed it went something like this:

"God exists."

"How so?"

"The bible says so."

"And how do you know the bible is right?"

"It was written by some people (okay I forgot thier names...)"

"And how do you know that they didn't make mistakes? They are human after all."

"Because they were blessed by god."

"And how do you know?"

"Because the bible says so and the bible is perfect."

"But it was writen by people"

"That was blessed by god."

*sigh* I hate circular reasoning....

---------------

I might put more stuff down latter for ranting purposes.
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kfgg
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby kfgg » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:46 am

The aithest "Free Thought Radio" radio show can be heard Saturdays here

http://www.themic921.com/pages/HEIN_v_FFrF.html

you can download MP3s here

http://www.themic921.com/cc-common/podc ... tRadio.xml

This is for Kelly. Enjoy.
Stan and Kyle :)
RideTheLightning
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby RideTheLightning » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:52 am

Kelly MacCornmac wrote:
RideTheLightning wrote:Alright, my other attempts to sum up what I believe in FAILED on the religion thread so I'll go for it again.


I respect Atheists as the intelligent people they are. As people who make up for some people who have a religion's ignorance to how things were really created. They do no harm, and even when I see a Christian (which I am myself) trying to convert one it makes me sick.
Not all Atheists are smart you know. And there are a wide variety of Atheists out there.

I hate it when Christians try to convert me.


I respect SOME devout Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc.
So you respect all Atheists but only respect some religious figures?

But as for those who just walk around denying fact saying, "JESUS IS LORD OR YOU DIE, YOU DIE AND YOU GO TO HELL", they are the ones who are wrong.
Woo! *hi-fives*
(Or maybe they are right and we do go to hell... but I would much rather go to hell than go to heaven with those bastards. )

I, myself believe there is no physical being God who watches over us, but more of a mental one that can help you. If he is real or not doesn't matter, because the belief he was real has always helped me and still does in a way.
How has it helped you?



Bottom line, everyone is right. There is no harm in Atheism, and there is no harm in religion as long as there are Atheists to make up for some people's ignorance.
Whoa there buddy, you are overexaggerating Atheists a bit. We are not all smart and some are the ones that will not look in the Philosophigal point of view and only look at science. But they are not always right for science can be wrong sometimes and even though it can be reliable, there is no proof that god does or does not exist. And I don't see why you are bashing religion so much. For some people, that's how they can get through their day. Please don't sterotype us, there are smart people in both regions.


Now.... rant time!

Once was when I was at school, where a kid tried to explain why god existed it went something like this:

"God exists."

"How so?"

"The bible says so."

"And how do you know the bible is right?"

"It was written by some people (okay I forgot thier names...)"

"And how do you know that they didn't make mistakes? They are human after all."

"Because they were blessed by god."

"And how do you know?"

"Because the bible says so and the bible is perfect."

"But it was writen by people"

"That was blessed by god."

*sigh* I hate circular reasoning....

---------------

I might put more stuff down latter for ranting purposes.


True, there are smart people on both sides, I'm just saying when you look at the majority of Atheists...well it's like when you compare SS with me when he's being serious...

The reason why I'd say most Atheists are intelligent is because they probably put thought into their decision to leave whatever religion they were part of (unless born Atheist). They then usually go to study many confusing or complicated things. How the universe was made and all that. I'm just saying most Atheists I meet are pretty intelligent. But yea, I seem to be ripping more on religions rather than defending them...

The thought of God has helped me, well, before I did some thinking to reach the conclusion he wasn't really real, (I guess the best way to put "God" is not real...but...real? or...not actually real, but can still affect you as if he was real, which kind of makes him real) I thought he was physically up above the clouds somewhere.. Take this for instance, my dad died when I was two, I prayed thinking he was looking at me from above, and I'd talk to him, really I wasn't, I realize that NOW, but still it felt like even though he's gone I was speaking with him... God could make me feel happy when I felt down. In fifth grade I went to a Catholic School (oh brother...) but there were some nuns there, one of which was out religion teacher. Easily the nicest person I've ever met. So one day she was talking about this one saint, the saint of roses (i forget her name) and what you'd do is you'd pray to her about something, and if you saw roses within the next while, the prayer is answered. Now of course it's bull...but I did happen to see a rose, and my prayer was to get an A on an upcoming math test because my grade had been in the 40's...so that gave me so much hope when I did get that A, somehow. I really believed, and I prayed and that just gave me hope. It just "helps" you out when you're in that young stage where you're all emotional and kind of weak. Or at least it did me, and many others.

Now I respect all religious figures, like this group of monks who devote their whole lives to God, they don't ever utter a word... I forget who they are but I found out about them a while ago. It's amazing what they do.

As for Atheists, I don't respect them all, I respect any that don't be dicks about it, and who always just spew sh*t about all Christians.

I respect anyone of the two sides who keeps an open mind. For religious people, that's saying, "Okay, yea, the big bang created everything...but that doesn't mean I'll lose my faith, maybe God is the answer to why and not how" and for Atheists it's just acknowledging that Christians aren't crazy for having faith. And that there is no real harm in believing.

And about the rant, that's the typical argument between an ignorant Christian and an ignorant Atheist. The Christian just denies fact and the Atheist is just out to say, "Nope, sorry bud, God ain't real, you suck, abandon faith."

Whereas any argument I participate in usually goes along the lines of me speaking out against that bullcrap and the Atheist hopefully not just going for trying to make me say God isn't real. Trying to reach some sort of agreement. I'd say the only way to fully do that is to just say, the world functions best with Atheists, and religious peoples. It's like they both combine to create a society of people trying to figure out real answers, while still keeping values and respecting what has taught them and many others how to live.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Kelly MacCornmac » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:14 am

RideTheLightning wrote:
The reason why I'd say most Atheists are intelligent is because they probably put thought into their decision to leave whatever religion they were part of (unless born Atheist).
People are born as Agnostics, not as an Atheist or any other group.... Oh you mean raised as an Atheist? Well... I wasn't really raised as an Atheist but I wasn't raised as a Christian either. My parents didn't say anything about religion to me much, so I guess I was raised in an Agnostic kind of way.


They then usually go to study many confusing or complicated things. How the universe was made and all that. I'm just saying most Atheists I meet are pretty intelligent.
From the people you have seen yes, but that isn't everybody.



Now of course it's bull...but I did happen to see a rose, and my prayer was to get an A on an upcoming math test because my grade had been in the 40's...so that gave me so much hope when I did get that A, somehow. I really believed, and I prayed and that just gave me hope.
Studing helps too (not that I should be saying anything...)

It just "helps" you out when you're in that young stage where you're all emotional and kind of weak. Or at least it did me, and many others.

Just like Santa Clause I guess.


And about the rant, that's the typical argument between an ignorant Christian and an ignorant Atheist. The Christian just denies fact and the Atheist is just out to say, "Nope, sorry bud, God ain't real, you suck, abandon faith."

I didn't say it like that. I was just wondering how the kid could belive in god, but he just used his bible as an example. And yes, I was pretty ignorant back then, but now I know about circular reasoning and form better arguments.


Trying to reach some sort of agreement. I'd say the only way to fully do that is to just say, the world functions best with Atheists, and religious peoples. It's like they both combine to create a society of people trying to figure out real answers, while still keeping values and respecting what has taught them and many others how to live.

Without religious peoples, there will be no disscusions like this :3
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static848
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby static848 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:56 am

well I am a christain and I am only 14% years old so my parents dont really like me watching this show but they put up with it I guess...I dont watch the religious episodes but over all I really like this show I just wish they could not do so much searing sometimes. :D
M00ndragon69
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby M00ndragon69 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:55 am

Well Static, welcome to the board..There are a bunch of damn dirty heathens here..And I swear a lot..LOL..Better watch out or we will corrupt you.


Ok there is something I want to ask the atheists. This question might make people mad, so fair warning. Ok. I don't have anything against atheists, one of my friends somewhat leans that way, I think alot because she had relgion forced down her throat at an early age..But she doesn't try to tell people their beliefs are wrong or argue with them. She just lives her life, does the things that make her happy, and tries to make the people she cares about happy. My issue is I don't see people on here doing that. I kind of see people picking at everything someone says that relates to religion and my my case any kind of belief in the supernatural..My question is why? And if someone has any kind of religious belief or belief in the supernatural, but they don't go pushing it on people, would you still try to change their minds?
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby JohnHorn » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:23 am

Depends is it or is it not a cult?
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby big kenny » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:28 am

im an athiest but none of my family know
im mean how can you believe this stuff about god when there is a diffrent story evry time,i mean come on!
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Your Shadow » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:36 am

I used to believe in god. Like I used to believe in Santa,
You can't always just live off of what a book says. Because 90% of what is put on paper is bullsh*t. It probably started off back in the "B.C" When some douchie little retard was writing stories on the daily newspaper (stone, tree bark, whatever it was back then).

I apologise if it offends anyone and dont get cranky but, Hey, Have YOU seen jesus/god? Have you HEARD from jesus/god?

I have a saying, "I'll believe it when I see it".

But for now, I just believe in a higher power. Not so much jesus or god, But just a higher power. Not sure what it is.
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby big kenny » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:40 am

cert. that exactly what im always saying to the douches at school
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby Your Shadow » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:55 am

big kenny wrote:cert. that exactly what im always saying to the douches at school

Thank you! Although it's kinda helps to have someone to blame something on. So he'll be in the back of my head......
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby big kenny » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:57 am

lol
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Re: RELIGION THREAD

Postby superiorsavior » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:28 pm

My question is why?

A very interesting question and one that doesn't get the attention it deserves. Firstly though I'd like to correct you; there are probably as many evangelical athiests out there as there are evangelical neo-pagans, you can't hastilly genralise from the athiests who are willing to come to religion forums to debate religion to all athiests. The first reason athiests prosylatise is the first reason christians spread their faith; if you think you've found the truth, and you think people would be better off if they knew the truth rather than devoting their lives to a lie, you'd feel you had a moral imperative to spread that truth to other people. Some people feel that faith is a form of self-deception, and like other deception is immoral and should be combated.

Others like myself think that the positive consequences some people get from religious belief are in most cases either outweighed or equaled (in which case we should go with what is reasonable) by the negative consequences and there is a moral imperative to help people escape from harmful (to self and others) delusion; religion (not theism but belief in a dogmatic system of thought) is opposed to skepticism and as science (the basis of the technology that makes our lives easier and happier) and consequential ethics (minimise harm/maximise happiness) both rely on skepticism, religion could be seen to oppose science and ethics: religion (not theism, though most dogmatic systems are theistic in the west) lead people to believe what they're told unquestioningly, which the Millgrim Experement, the Good samaritan experement and the Mundanity of evil hypothesis (google them) show is not a good thing: the peddlers of religion have a history of abusing their followers, as faith healers and televangelists show: the suffering religion causes those many people (generally nervous people, gays, etc.) who think they will go to hell: people who waste their one shot of life on religion: and the way religion appears to be like an addiction for those who follow it.

A more selfish reason athiests spread their message is that Religion can have a negative effect on everyone in society, by depressing the speed of scientific (sedatives, big bang cosmology, Evolution, etc.) and social (votes for women, abolition of slavery, etc.) progress as well as by giving more extreme cults an air of legitimacy. The absurdity of what athiests see to be a fictional tale being taken seriously by the majority of grown adults is maddening to some. Others oppose theism for the same reason people oppose words like fagot and the N-word; they have a history of hatred (antisematism, slavery, homophobia, racism and sexism were condoned and acted on by the church) attatched to them that is best done away with.

how can you believe this stuff about god when there is a diffrent story evry time

There are multiple, mutually exclusive interpritations of the beliefs of every different sect of every different religion alive today, that has been alive in the past and that could be alive in the future. Each has almost equal evidence; reported miraicles, feelings of the divine, etc. We may be able to find out the ultimate cause of the universe, weather there is an afterlife, weather the universe has meaning and what is moral, but we can never find it out from any religion, because religions all have the same level of evidence; we need to base our beliefs on the arguments and the evidence if we're going to come to truth.

Have YOU seen jesus/god?

Some christians do see jesus/god. That doesn't convince me, because simpler and more plausable naturalistic explanations for the signtings exist. Has any christian ever seen Allah? Has any muslim ever seen Brahaman? Has any Jewish person had a vision of Nirvana? People see what their society gives them reason to expect to see.
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